I
IanW-UK
New member
I love the way you track acoustic geetars, very intimate and smooth sounding. What's your recording chain for that? Cool tune, very polished sounding.
Cheers,
Ian........
Cheers,
Ian........
kgirl72
New member
You know, though, it seems like that songwriting forum focuses so intently on lyrics. I could be totally wrong about that, but I don't even know how to use eq and the like properly, so of course I need to learn that, but it's not my main interest either. So, I hear you there Sluice, and wanted to tell you that I think this is very beautiful. I listened to it a lot already. I love the sound you get, but I love the sound of the melody, the directions it moves, and the overally song itself, which is really what I'm listening for generally anyway. I'll never be an engineer, but I still can listen to the song and I say, it's very honest, and very emotional, and I dig that. Intimate is a good word for this. If only I had something so real to say.
-Kirstin
-Kirstin
dobro
Well-known member
Oh you've got it to say, just like Tom. The feelings are there. But some people have a knack for knowing how to say it. And play it.
kgirl72
New member
Well, give me some Tom. What the hell? You need to hoard all that shit so none of us can have any?
Thanks for the pep talk dobro, and Sluice, hope you're doing well.
-Kirstin
Thanks for the pep talk dobro, and Sluice, hope you're doing well.
-Kirstin
erichenryus
New member
SLuiCe said:
that's what i've been thinking lately. maybe the songwriting forum here is a good place to start? i dunno.
SLuiCe
New member
Some general thoughts if I may
I guess I'm compelled to jump back into this talk here (since we're not talking about my lack of EQ) because lately I'm trying to find out what are the most important things for me in music. What do I want to give to it and to gain from it? You see, I hear a lot of music that seems to strive to deliver a certain effect. My approach is quite the opposite. My music is not the cause, it is the effect. Does that make sense. Music is different things to different people. And there is no right and wrong reason for it. But I am drawn to music that holds a mirror up to nature and humanity, regardless of whether it is happy or sad. I sang the song that this thread was about with tears in my eyes, in a hurry before my girlfriend got home. Put two mics on the stands and hit record. Then I adjusted the levels just enough so that the words could be heard. It's raw. My brain didn't get a chance to ruin it. I posted it without really thinking about it because I was by myself and wanted my friends to know how I felt right then. I'm not saying that this approach is right for everything. But the next day as I pulled myself together and listened to what I had recorded, I realized how much damage our brains often do to our music. My music is no better than anybody else's music. This is extremely clear to me. But I do care about its purpose more than I think a lot of people do. I care about it's communicative abilities, not its ability to sell. Do you know how many times I've been told here to deliver the hook sooner? Or to cut my 5 minute song down to 3? Oh, and how many stars did this song get? It's hilarious really.
None of this is upsetting or anything like that. And I'm nobody special by any means. But I think about this stuff. My experiences in life have made these things important to me. So I'm just rambling some thoughts to anyone who cares to listen. The main reason I'm taking the time to say these things is because I love that you guys and ladies are all musicians, some of the few people in the world I can instantly relate to, and I just wanted to do my little part to remind you to bravely play what you feel. Some people play only happy music because they're afraid to play sad music. Some play angry music because they're afraid to play gentle music. But none of us always feels the same way all the time. And that's the premise on which I think I want to chase my musical whims. And I don't care that this got off topic. Dobro can delete it.
If you've made it this far into my rant you may be interested in my new book, How to Find One Plugin Preset That Works For Everything in Every Situation available at Amazon.com.
Ok, one technical answer- IanW the guitar chain was MC012's to Studio Projects VTB-1. They cost me several thousands of dollars. (joke) Don't forget the importance of finger tone before going out and buying a new acoustic guitar chain. (not a joke)
Alright, before I irritate the insecure one-star bandits anymore I'll leave this little off-topic thread alone. Thank you very much for your time.
Tom
I guess I'm compelled to jump back into this talk here (since we're not talking about my lack of EQ) because lately I'm trying to find out what are the most important things for me in music. What do I want to give to it and to gain from it? You see, I hear a lot of music that seems to strive to deliver a certain effect. My approach is quite the opposite. My music is not the cause, it is the effect. Does that make sense. Music is different things to different people. And there is no right and wrong reason for it. But I am drawn to music that holds a mirror up to nature and humanity, regardless of whether it is happy or sad. I sang the song that this thread was about with tears in my eyes, in a hurry before my girlfriend got home. Put two mics on the stands and hit record. Then I adjusted the levels just enough so that the words could be heard. It's raw. My brain didn't get a chance to ruin it. I posted it without really thinking about it because I was by myself and wanted my friends to know how I felt right then. I'm not saying that this approach is right for everything. But the next day as I pulled myself together and listened to what I had recorded, I realized how much damage our brains often do to our music. My music is no better than anybody else's music. This is extremely clear to me. But I do care about its purpose more than I think a lot of people do. I care about it's communicative abilities, not its ability to sell. Do you know how many times I've been told here to deliver the hook sooner? Or to cut my 5 minute song down to 3? Oh, and how many stars did this song get? It's hilarious really.
None of this is upsetting or anything like that. And I'm nobody special by any means. But I think about this stuff. My experiences in life have made these things important to me. So I'm just rambling some thoughts to anyone who cares to listen. The main reason I'm taking the time to say these things is because I love that you guys and ladies are all musicians, some of the few people in the world I can instantly relate to, and I just wanted to do my little part to remind you to bravely play what you feel. Some people play only happy music because they're afraid to play sad music. Some play angry music because they're afraid to play gentle music. But none of us always feels the same way all the time. And that's the premise on which I think I want to chase my musical whims. And I don't care that this got off topic. Dobro can delete it.
If you've made it this far into my rant you may be interested in my new book, How to Find One Plugin Preset That Works For Everything in Every Situation available at Amazon.com.
Ok, one technical answer- IanW the guitar chain was MC012's to Studio Projects VTB-1. They cost me several thousands of dollars. (joke) Don't forget the importance of finger tone before going out and buying a new acoustic guitar chain. (not a joke)
Alright, before I irritate the insecure one-star bandits anymore I'll leave this little off-topic thread alone. Thank you very much for your time.
Tom
groucho
Member
Re: Some general thoughts if I may
I hope nobody minds the OT nature of this, because I think it's pretty interesting.
Especially interesting to hear you, of all people, say the above sentence Tom. Because it seems very clear to me that one of the big things that makes your music as good as it is, is the amount of Time and Brain power that goes into the recording of it. All that obsessive little knob-twiddling and snare-adjusting and half-decibal eqing can be the difference between a rough demo and a song that really breathes the life that you put into it when you wrote and performed it.
I guess I'm just adding my take on this, which is that for me, personally (not trying to impose my "way" on anyone else) it's really all of the same cloth - it's all part of the creative process: writing, singing, playing, recording, mixing, mastering, etc. It's all part of the fascinating chain of events that leads to this piece of music that can be played back and listened to again and again.
Another thing that your above comment reminded me of is this: the things we do that enhance our art DON'T always enhance our lives - and vice versa.
Just some thoughts.
Chris
SLuiCe said:
I hope nobody minds the OT nature of this, because I think it's pretty interesting.
Especially interesting to hear you, of all people, say the above sentence Tom. Because it seems very clear to me that one of the big things that makes your music as good as it is, is the amount of Time and Brain power that goes into the recording of it. All that obsessive little knob-twiddling and snare-adjusting and half-decibal eqing can be the difference between a rough demo and a song that really breathes the life that you put into it when you wrote and performed it.
I guess I'm just adding my take on this, which is that for me, personally (not trying to impose my "way" on anyone else) it's really all of the same cloth - it's all part of the creative process: writing, singing, playing, recording, mixing, mastering, etc. It's all part of the fascinating chain of events that leads to this piece of music that can be played back and listened to again and again.
Another thing that your above comment reminded me of is this: the things we do that enhance our art DON'T always enhance our lives - and vice versa.
Just some thoughts.
Chris
SLuiCe
New member
That's true, Chris. In fact, for some reason you omitted the previous sentence in your quote. I also did say "often".
The whole point of my post was to express my own presonal rediscovery of the initial impulse of music, not the resulting effect of it. Respectfully, to each his own. Am I going to stop applying my mixing experience to my work? No. But I am going to spend more time making the music itself than I do tweaking it to satisfy the audiophiles.
The whole point of my post was to express my own presonal rediscovery of the initial impulse of music, not the resulting effect of it. Respectfully, to each his own. Am I going to stop applying my mixing experience to my work? No. But I am going to spend more time making the music itself than I do tweaking it to satisfy the audiophiles.
groucho
Member
SLuiCe said:
I get what you're saying Tom. And I do understand. I'm just adding my own thoughts here, as well, since your post sparked some rambling of my own.
I will add that if you're tweaking to satisfy anyone but yourself, something's definitely wrong!
Chris
SLuiCe
New member
That's just it, Chris...I'm a recovering audiophile myself!
C
CanopuS
Amateur music since 1847
I take full responsibility with asking Tom technical questions. Sorry I'll focus on the songwriting aspect, which I find is more important. Too many of us think "If only I had ONE more mic, my songs would sound good", "All I need is that preamp to make it sound better". As far as I see it, once a decent setup is created, its up to the creativeness of the composer to make something of it. Now before this turns into a flame, I admit I've fallen into the technical trap. I'm very much wanting new equipment (but then again I do only have the mic which is built into my monitor and have a soundcard that came with the computer, so I atleast need SOMETHING ). Anyway, I'll stop, but if you do "transfer" to a song-writing style forum, drop a link for us? (Or not if you don't want me involved )
I'll focus on the songwriting aspect, which I find is more important. Too many of us think "If only I had ONE more mic, my songs would sound good", "All I need is that preamp to make it sound better". As far as I see it, once a decent setup is created, its up to the creativeness of the composer to make something of it. Now before this turns into a flame, I admit I've fallen into the technical trap. I'm very much wanting new equipment (but then again I do only have the mic which is built into my monitor and have a soundcard that came with the computer, so I atleast need SOMETHING ). Anyway, I'll stop, but if you do "transfer" to a song-writing style forum, drop a link for us? (Or not if you don't want me involved )
SLuiCe
New member
Hey Canopus, I think what I'm trying to say is know when enough is enough for you. Sure I'd like to own a $1000 mic. Hell a $500 mic would be a big improvement probably. Sure, get the gear that at least captures the details of your music. I like good sound as much as the next guy. But I think we get on these forums and get sucked into, as Dobro put it in another thread, "elitist bullshit." Your heart and your ears are the best tools in your "studio." And you're born with both. It's learning how to use them that is the good stuff.
C
CanopuS
Amateur music since 1847
For me, I think it's very much I'm a perfectionist, which doesn't help, and I'm totally scared of performing live, and I kinda hide in my recordings, which is bad (I'm working on it ). The thing is to have a good setup, and enjoy the music from thereon. You indeed are a good rolemodel for those coming here thinking that you need to spend tens of thousands to get professional quality, but I wonder how far a bad song would sound good on your equipment? Do you think your songwriting bypasses the problems? I can't really say, except I know it's exceptional.
). The thing is to have a good setup, and enjoy the music from thereon. You indeed are a good rolemodel for those coming here thinking that you need to spend tens of thousands to get professional quality, but I wonder how far a bad song would sound good on your equipment? Do you think your songwriting bypasses the problems? I can't really say, except I know it's exceptional.
groucho
Member
SLuiCe said:
Well, I for one am glad this place is here for all that niggling little mix shit. I don't need an internet forum to help inspire me artistically, or to make my singing better, or to help me write songs. I get all of that in real life.
What I DO need an internet forum for is all the tedius little nuts and bolts of what makes a mix work. And judging from many of the mixes I hear online (my own most definitely included), most of us need to work MORE not less on the basics of recording, and the all the technical stuff.
We've got inspiration and musicality in spades. What we have very little of are mixes that showcase that musicality in a pleasing listenable way. And that comes down to all that boring shit like which mic with which pre, how much eq and where, what type of compression, etc.
"Elitist" is all the pros who tell we homerecorders not to trouble our little heads about that stuff since we'll NEVER equal a real engineer in a real studio, so why bother.
I say now, and have always said: FUCK that noise!
Chris
SLuiCe
New member
I suppose it depends on who you ask. Some react to the music, some react to the sonics. I simply recommend we think for ourselves here. Gather opinions from several different people when making critical musical and technical decisions. There are plenty of people who frequent this board who talk lots but never back up their words with music. They're better suited for working in a music store IMHO. They'll tell you all about algorithms and linear phase and standing waves and everything else they read about in the mixing/mastering forum. But have you heard their music. If you have, did it move you? That's what I'm talking about. Just don't rush into things. Temper others' thoughts with plenty of your own. Cheers.
groucho
Member
SLuiCe said:
Totally true. ESPECIALLY the part about "lots of talk but no walk". But we don't need to start naming names, do we?
Chris
C
CanopuS
Amateur music since 1847
OK well from my incredibly arrogant point of view, I think I'm good at writing songs. I'm 15, still want to be a musician when I'm older, and have written songs since years before I realised I could record. I agree I find it useful to get all those technical comments, but when I posted my song, I wanted people to say they liked the song, not the production. Unfortunately, some people can't like a song without good production, just like some people can't watch black and white films.
groucho
Member
Just goes to show - we all come here for different reasons, looking for different things. Which is one of the reasons I dig this place!
Chris
Chris
B.SABBATH
New member
I had a long post but decided against it..
Tom, your one of the best here, but sometimes you get hyper sensitive.. people shouldn't have to feel like they should apologize for being critical.. that wasn't cool to read..it's hard to find a critical ear in this day and age.. I usually like to talk about mixes and sound when people post and not focus on if it's well written or not.. for me, it's all about the sound because I truly don't care if people like the song or not.. if you don't care, then stop tripping.. if you didn't care about the sound, you wouldn't post the same song 5 times like you do..
it bothered me to see a thread where it was uncool to mention anything that wasn't a compliment.. don't mean to sound like an ass, but when I read you weren't going to be around as much etc, it bothered me.. I want you to be around.. hope things are getting better man..
CanopuS - stay critical
Tom, your one of the best here, but sometimes you get hyper sensitive.. people shouldn't have to feel like they should apologize for being critical.. that wasn't cool to read..it's hard to find a critical ear in this day and age.. I usually like to talk about mixes and sound when people post and not focus on if it's well written or not.. for me, it's all about the sound because I truly don't care if people like the song or not.. if you don't care, then stop tripping.. if you didn't care about the sound, you wouldn't post the same song 5 times like you do..
it bothered me to see a thread where it was uncool to mention anything that wasn't a compliment.. don't mean to sound like an ass, but when I read you weren't going to be around as much etc, it bothered me.. I want you to be around.. hope things are getting better man..
CanopuS - stay critical
participant
New member
SLuiCe said:
I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into ticky-tack hair splitting stuff... the bottom line (for most respondents) seems to be: Tom, don't go. We like your stuff.
One point if I may? Some people are just flat-out prolific, and can crank tunes out hourly. Others of us have limited time, but wish to support people like Tom, Sam, Ped, dobro and others with a listen or two. It's the least we can do... but not for an abundance of time.
I'd like to back my words up with more music. When school lets out, we'll see. Just don't expect it to move you nearly as much as the music of those others... they're the musicians. Honest.
C