shure mics

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No Name said:
Is the sm58s the best for live performances?
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"Best" is a very subjective thing. The SM58 has a reputation of being an extremely rugged dynamic mic that is pleasing on a lot of voices. Given it's low price, decent sound, and superior durability, it is definitely a fine choice for live vocals. You can typically hand one of these to a singer and get a decent sound that can be EQed at the board to taste. I personally prefer the SM57 with a windscreen for my voice. Other Shure mics, like the Beta 57 or SM86 (condensor) are also good on some voices. Sennheiser makes some damn fine live mics too.

Bottom line: there is no "best." The best mic for my voice may sound terrible on someone else. There is a lot of trial-and-error.
 
Depends who you are and what room you're in. 9 times out of 10 I will use a Sennheiser e835 or e845 now, and ignore 58s altogether.

When I'm doing an acoustic or piano only set though, the warmth and punch from a 58 is something I really like. The lack of top end costs the 58 dearly in a loud mix in a dead room full of people though.
 
Sm57, Sm58, Maybe not the best, but the Industry Standards

Nearly every engineer, producer and live sound tech is happy to have a few of these in his bag of tricks.

Dom
 
This industry standard tag is really quite annoying, because every beginner who goes into a shop aspire to getting a 57 or 58 because they think industry standard means 'the best'. Whereas it really means 'sturdy enough to last, with just about good enough sound to get away with'.
 
yeah, i've always thought that the 58 was the "industry standard" b/c you can drop it, spit on it, wash it in beer, and do so night after night and get no real noticible degradation in sound. "industry standard" meaning "virtually indestructible and sounds usable on just about anyone"......not "sounds good". hence, bars can stock them and not have to worry about replacing them....who cares what they sound like?

i've got a couple simply b/c everyone's got a couple. but give me a sennheiser e835 any day, though....i think they sound FAR better on most sources.


cheers,
wade
 
I would say that for what it it used for, the sm58 is the best mic out there. When you factor, quality, to availability, to sound, to durability, to accepatability etc.... Yes it is the "industry standard" for live vocal reccomendations. But no it is not the standard for waht you guys listed above. It is the standard because night after night, in room after room, a good vocal sound can always be had. In well over 1000 shows that I have mixed, I have NEVER found a place where a good vocal could not be had due to the fact that a singer was using a 58. It is always other factors (PA quality, tuning, room acoustics etc...) that have limited performances and sound quality. I have however found that other mics in some of those situations were harder to control.

I am not saying that the sm58 is the best sounding mic out there for anything you want to do opn stage. I am saying though that there is no other mic (except an sm57) that is more widely stocked, accepted, durable, affordable, and still capable of quality use. Many many bands still request sm58's. This is not because they are durable. This is because people still actually like them. These bands could requet any mic they want, but MANY of them CHOOSE Shure sm58's. And no, it isn't my favorite. In the sub $200 live vocal mic arena, I like the Shure beta57A:)
 
... i like a 57 with a thin pop filter on it. i know that the 57 and 58 are "essentially" the same mic (and i don't wish to open up THAT tired discussion), but for some reason my 57 sounds a bit clearer. i love 57's on vocals... pj harvey uses one... jon spencer and gillian welch use'em too, so some other folks seem to agree.
to expose my flair for the obvious: try out a few mic's and see what suits your voice and music. try the shure, audix, sennheiser, and all the other stage vocal dynamic mics... they're mostly about $100 (or a bit less)-$150.
good luck - jv
 
xstatic said:
It is always other factors (PA quality, tuning, room acoustics etc...) that have limited performances and sound quality.
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I find that when your room sounds like you've got a sock stuffed in your ears, it's easier to change the mic than the room. That's why the top end on the Sennheisers is so important - because you may not have the awesomest horns ever, and you might have carpet on the floor too.

Incidentally, my first e845 has been going around for 4 years now and, unlike the 58s I used to have, it doesn't need a new basket top every 6 months. Time will tell, but I suspect the Senns are not far behind the Shures build-quality-wise either.
 
noisedude said:
I find that when your room sounds like you've got a sock stuffed in your ears, it's easier to change the mic than the room. That's why the top end on the Sennheisers is so important - because you may not have the awesomest horns ever, and you might have carpet on the floor too.

Incidentally, my first e845 has been going around for 4 years now and, unlike the 58s I used to have, it doesn't need a new basket top every 6 months. Time will tell, but I suspect the Senns are not far behind the Shures build-quality-wise either.
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the senn e845 is a really nice mic... especially for the money. i agree, they seem very solid as well. i know a couple rooms around the country that use them and love them. the 835 and 855 are really good too, but to my ears they hit pay dirt with the 845 (and it's less expensive than the 855, which seem to sound a little too crispy on some voices to me).
peace - jv
 
Like I said, the sm58 may not be the highest quality mic on any given source or room, but it is always usable and always capable of a good sound with even the tiniest bit of engineering prowess. The proper soltuion is not to just blindly switch mics, but rather work on tuning the PA first. If you can't get a decent sound on voclas out of a PA because of a bad PA or room, then you will also have problems with all the other stuff on stage. I am not saying "don't buy anything else" or that the "sm58 always sounds better". I purely wanted to point out why the sm58 is the industry standard because I felt like the reasons given above were short sighted and really didn't capture why the sm58 was the standard. Many companies over the years have released what some considered to be the "sm58 killer". However, not a single one of those mics has actually accomplished that feat. There is a reason for that, and I attempted to point out those reasons above. Nowadays there are many good options available as substitutes that work and sound great. Many more viable options than in the past. Yet none will "dethrone" the sm57 and sm58 standard. Personally, I use what is available and what is tried and true. I do believe in using the best match for a particular sound. What I have discovered though is that with a little system knowledge and halfway decent gear, often times an sm58 is what is called for. Personally, I love the Neumann KSM105, but along with that beautiful sound comes a whole new set of logistics and possible complications. Not to mention a much heftier price tag.
 
xstatic said:
Yet none will "dethrone" the sm57 and sm58 standard
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I know what you're saying, but I still slightly disagree with you. I am seeing Sennheisers everywhere I go at the moment, perhaps the tide is finally turning. You see, my fundamental disagreement with you is that I think the Evolutions (amongst others) are genuinely better mics. And as for engineering prowess .... some of the house 'engineers' around here don't know a bin from a tweeter.:)
 
Dom Franco said:
Nearly every engineer, producer and live sound tech is happy to have a few of these in his bag of tricks.

Dom
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I agree... and the SM57 has been an industry standard for a long time... even longer than some people on this BBS are old... lol.
 
noisedude said:
I know what you're saying, but I still slightly disagree with you. I am seeing Sennheisers everywhere I go at the moment, perhaps the tide is finally turning. You see, my fundamental disagreement with you is that I think the Evolutions (amongst others) are genuinely better mics. And as for engineering prowess .... some of the house 'engineers' around here don't know a bin from a tweeter.:)
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This is something I thought of posting before. If you are buying mics for yourself and your band, you should try things and get the one that works best for your voice and gear.

The tide may be turning for bands, but anyone looking to provide sound reinforcement on a certain level needs to have multiple 57s and 58s available.
Many clients still put them on riders, and will go to the next guy if you don't have them. My great-sounding Audix OM-7s still spend more time in the box than on the stage, unless I am the main mixer.
57s and 58s are very predictable, and most mixers can eq them in their sleep.
A guy stepping onto your monitor rig in a multi-band show doesn't want to have to think about eqing a stage for a mic he doesn't know, no matter how much you tell him how "nice" it is.
 
DJL said:
I agree... and the SM57 has been an industry standard for a long time... even longer than some people on this BBS are old... lol.
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Err, you mean like me? :)

Boingo - I know what you're saying. And I certainly have nothing against them per se, I have a USA-built 545 I absolutely adore andn would never be against having the odd 57 or 58 around, but I haven't come across any settings where I couldn't find a better vocal mic which cost the same money.
 
I think boingoman is talking live situations and eq'ing with the standard. I think noisedude is saying, hell with the standard I want a better mic.

The standard is just that! Either via mutual agreement or because at the cost of the item was cheaper and it became the standard.

VHS was the the standard for VCRs, but that was not always the case. There used to be a time when there was a war going on between BETA and VHS format. BETA was clearly a much better system, with higher definition. However, SONY sold the rights to VHS to other companies, and VHS became the industry standard because it was cheaper. Not a better performer, not necessarily more reliable. With time VHS became a better performer, still cheap, and it was much easier to find VHS than BETA.

However, news vans, and broadcast agencies still use BETA Tapes today.
Why did cassette tapes become the industry standard, instead of 8 track? I mean clearly 8 tracks of sound is much better than 1 track on each side.

Of course you are going to know how the standard is going to perform, because it's so well known that you know how it will perform in certain situations. If you get to know your better mics, they'll become your standard because you'll know how they perform in all kind of situation.

I don't think noisedude is saying you need to give up your standard. The way I understand it, is that he prefers to make his Sennheiser his standard because he feels that the Sennheiser mics are clearly better mics, and whatever quircks they may have, he'll work them out.

I guess I just became the forum counselor. OK, now you tell him how you feel. (blah, blah) How does that make you feel....? :D
 
I feel like all this time I have been ... wait a second!!! I'm not here for counselling!

*Gets off couch*

Yeah, you're probably right. I just don't see the point in carrying on with a product when better ones are available, simply because it's what always has been used. But audio engineers are strange creatures (just take a look at the Cave), so I can make allowances for them not being too willing to change their successful ways.
 
noisedude said:
Yeah, you're probably right. I just don't see the point in carrying on with a product when better ones are available, simply because it's what always has been used. But audio engineers are strange creatures (just take a look at the Cave), so I can make allowances for them not being too willing to change their successful ways.
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I agree with you, but better is also subjective to taste and the application. If I had a black&white tv, an old crappy color tv would be better. However to someone who owned a plasma tv a old crappy tv would most certainly not be better.
However, I could take my old crappy tv, and watch it outside or in the garage or in my shop. I would not do that with the Plasma TV.
I don't think audio engineers are not alone. Many geeks are creatures of habit, and they think their opinion is the right one for everyone.

While many concepts are true for everyone (structural engineering, chemical engineering, electrical engineering) there are other that are not necessarily true. Many people in this BBS believe that you have to build your own computer, and don't buy anything mass produced 'cause its crap. While this applies to them it does not apply to everyone.

People come to me and ask me about getting a computer all the time. I first ask them what are they trying to do? Are they going to do something special or are they just going to do e-mail, internet, maybe some light gaming, and perhaps watch some movies. The second question I ask them is how much do they know about computers, and how much they want to know about computers. 90% of the time I get yeah internet, and e-mail and I know nothing about computers but I want it to alway run. Buy a Dell, Gateway, HP whatever and buy some support. Same here people go, You have to have the SM57 or the B1 or the whatever. While it works for them, it may not work for everyone.
 
"better" is most certainly subjective. I do a lot of shows in a lot of different venues. I have yet to see a single Sennheiser Vocal mic in them. I can definately leave room for the possibility that it is a better sounding mic, but I don't see it replacing the sm58. I also just received about 30 different riders. Not a single one requested anything other than a Shure vocal mic. Strange eh? Also, all of these are signed touring bands. Not perfromers without any experience or knowledge. Inevitably some of them will show up with their own vocal mics though. The funny thing is that for half of the ones who do have their own, it will still be a Shure:)
 
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