shure mics

[johneeeveee]

"better" is most certainly subjective. I do a lot of shows in a lot of different venues. I have yet to see a single Sennheiser Vocal mic in them. I can definately leave room for the possibility that it is a better sounding mic, but I don't see it replacing the sm58. I also just received about 30 different riders. Not a single one requested anything other than a Shure vocal mic. Strange eh? Also, all of these are signed touring bands. Not perfromers without any experience or knowledge. Inevitably some of them will show up with their own vocal mics though. The funny thing is that for half of the ones who do have their own, it will still be a Shure

i agree... although i do see a lot of performers carrying their own mics these days... but i run in the quieter singer songwriter and stripped down indie band circuit. the beta 58 is probably the most popular mic i see people toting around on tour, but i do see a fair amount of e series senny's, especially the 835 and 845. this is just my observation, of course. if you don't mind me asking, what clubs do you work?

 

[noisedude]

Strange eh?

Not really ... many will not have tried other mics! I'm not surprised at it being Shure mics, cos the Beta 57 and 58 are quality mics. I am surprised/slightly frustrated that people who swear by SM58s haven't tried anything new in the last 20 years because they read when they first used them that they were industry standard!

I hope you know I'm not stirring with you here man, I think the continuation of the SM58 is an interesting phenomenon.

 

[Dracon]

"better" is most certainly subjective. I do a lot of shows in a lot of different venues. I have yet to see a single Sennheiser Vocal mic in them. I can definately leave room for the possibility that it is a better sounding mic, but I don't see it replacing the sm58. I also just received about 30 different riders. Not a single one requested anything other than a Shure vocal mic.

I'm not sure that riders asking for a certain mic should be a sign from God that the Shure SM58 is the mic to have. It sure makes Shure popular, but it doesn't have anything to do with performance. The Shure brand has been around since before Elvis, and it has been used in many stage performances. Eventually some contender will kick Shure out of its pedestal.
That's what I'm trying to say. People take to thinking that a standard was adopted because it's better, and that is not true.
I was flipping the other day, and I saw Howard Stern using a Sennheiser for his guests. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing!
If you do a search around here, you'll find 100 different opinions about a single microphone. I personally hate the MXL 990, to me sounds like a can. Other folks love it for Overhead, Bass, whatever.
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to diss Shure, or any other mic. What noisedude is trying to get across is, keep your mind open and think outside the box.
That being said, go with what you rely on and forget what anyone else says.

 

[noisedude]

What noisedude is trying to get across is, keep your mind open and think outside the box.

And also do whatever it takes to keep your clients happy!!

I wouldn't advocate pissing them off just to try a new mic - in my case the egos I dent with my mic choices aren't important enough to get me kicked out of what I'm doing. Also, 99% are happy with my choices afterwards ... but that doesn't affect how much (if anything) I get paid, just how satisfied I feel with the whole thing.

 

[Dracon]

And also do whatever it takes to keep your clients happy!!

When talking about a business, then you are married to what the client wants.
You can try to persuade them by gently telling them something like:
"I know you love xyz, but for your voice I think abc would be great. Would you just try the abc? If you don't like it, we'll go back to your choice"
However, people are firm on their beliefs and faiths about things whether right or wrong.
The Dark Ages happen because a bunch of wrong people had very strong beliefs (and the power to weild their beliefs).
It's funny that a bunch of artists who are suppose to be open minded are many times more closed minded than say an engineer. A structural engineer will go with safety first, and whatever was good last week does not mean is good this week.

 

[foreverain4]

"Best" is a very subjective thing. The SM58 has a reputation of being an extremely rugged dynamic mic that is pleasing on a lot of voices. Given it's low price, decent sound, and superior durability, it is definitely a fine choice for live vocals. You can typically hand one of these to a singer and get a decent sound that can be EQed at the board to taste. I personally prefer the SM57 with a windscreen for my voice. Other Shure mics, like the Beta 57 or SM86 (condensor) are also good on some voices. Sennheiser makes some damn fine live mics too.

Bottom line: there is no "best." The best mic for my voice may sound terrible on someone else. There is a lot of trial-and-error.

a 58 and 57 are the exact same mic, cept a 58 has a bit more bass roll off. oh yeah, and it has a wind screen....


look them up for yourself
www.shure.com

 

[scrubs]

a 58 and 57 are the exact same mic, cept a 58 has a bit more bass roll off. oh yeah, and it has a wind screen....


look them up for yourself
www.shure.com

Certainly, but they don't always sound the same (due to the factors you mentioned). I personally think the 57 is a bit more versatile, but they are very very similar.

 

[noisedude]

We are SO NOT HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN! Please people, do a search but for the love of god do not inflict a "are 57 and 58 the same mic" discussion on us!!!!!!

 

[foreverain4]

do accept my apologie

 

[noisedude]

Haha! Don't worry about it ... it's just become an anachronism of this forum. I think I will take my own life if I have to sit through it again!

 

[scrubs]

Haha! Don't worry about it ... it's just become an anachronism of this forum. I think I will take my own life if I have to sit through it again!

Promise?























just kidding.

 

[Dracon]

We are SO NOT HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN! Please people, do a search but for the love of god do not inflict a "are 57 and 58 the same mic" discussion on us!!!!!!

Oh! Common! But Shure SM58/57 are the industry standard. That should mean something, right?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[xstatic]

I work clubs all over the state of Utah, work in Nevada and some in the LA area. Everyone stocks 58's. An sm58 58 may or may not be the right mic for any given singer. No singer should just blindly buy an sm58 without at least trying other mics first. In the end though, there is no mic more proven, durable, feedback resistant and more accepted on a live stage than a shure 57 or 58 whether it be sm or beta. I know there are many other nice mics out there, and actually most all of these touring acts have tried many other mics. Most of them still end up with the Shure mic. It's not necessarily because they sound better, but all the other things added up as well. Industry standard was never meant to be "best sounding". Something becomes an "industry standard" based on a slew of other requirements as well.

 

[scrubs]

Haha! Don't worry about it ... it's just become an anachronism of this forum. I think I will take my own life if I have to sit through it again!

Just because sir noisy used the word anachronism (which itself is an anachronism):

From Shure.com

"It is true the SM57 and SM58 microphones are based on the same cartridge design. The main difference between them is in the grille design. The SM58 was designed for vocal application and it uses a separate grille with a very effective pop filter. The SM57 was designed as an instrument microphone where smaller grille size is preferred. In this application the pop and wind are not usually a concern. The SM57 uses an integral resonator/grille assembly, where grille is actually a part of the cartridge. These two grille designs place the diaphragm of the microphones in a different acoustical environment. First of all, the distance from the top of the grille to the diaphragm is significantly shorter on the SM57 compared to that of the SM58. This allows for closer sound pickup with even more pronounced proximity effect. Secondly, a different resonator/grille assembly design of the SM57 is responsible for its slightly higher output above 5 kHz."

There. No further discussion necessary...ever.

 

[Innovations]

Often the way we describe things does indeed effect how people percieve them. Calling them Industry Standard does get people thinking that they are Industry Standard the same way that Neumanns are Industry Standard. Both have incredible reputations in the industry, but not the same one.

I think it is better to say that the SM57 and SM58 are the most reliable microphones in the industry. I think that covers both their construction and their sonic properties.

 

[Dracon]

Often the way we describe things does indeed effect how people percieve them. Calling them Industry Standard does get people thinking that they are Industry Standard the same way that Neumanns are Industry Standard. Both have incredible reputations in the industry, but not the same one.

I think it is better to say that the SM57 and SM58 are the most reliable microphones in the industry. I think that covers both their construction and their sonic properties.

Nothing wrong with Reliability. I went with an M-Audio Delta 44 because the drivers from M-Audio are more reliable.
However, would I love to have a MOTU? Hell, yeah! I can't see my self spending that much in the next year or so.

 

[chrono9000gi]

Beta vs. beta

Dracon said:
However, news vans, and broadcast agencies still use BETA Tapes today.
<end quote>

Betamax went up against VHS and lost. Broadcasters use Betacam. They're different formats. True, they both have "beta" in their names .

-Chrono

 

[Dracon]

Dracon said:
However, news vans, and broadcast agencies still use BETA Tapes today.
<end quote>

Betamax went up against VHS and lost. Broadcasters use Betacam. They're different formats. True, they both have "beta" in their names .

-Chrono

You are right. Here is a littlebit of history BetaMax from this website
http://www.videointerchange.com/formatsupport.htm

"Sony Beta/BetaMax 1,2,3 (1975)
Introduced in 1975, Beta was the first successful consumer cassette format that put an end to the reel to reel era.

Later in the timeline, Beta 2 and 3 were introduced (synonymous with lp and slp in Vhs "jargon" respectively). The success was short lived however the broadcast industry did use it originally"



1975
BetaMax Vs. VHS
"Though vastly superior to Vhs in picture quality, it lost market acceptance mostly through a series of marketing blunders by Sony when JVC introduced the Vhs format a year later. In a side to side comparison of Beta vs Vhs , Beta was the obvious winner - hands down - no contest ! So good was the quality that some broadcasters used it for news gathering as an inexpensive alternative to 3/4" U-matic. Though not broadcast quality, it was a technically superior consumer format at the time, that should have succeeded "

not until 1982 did the broadcast industry adopted BetaCam
"BetaCam (1982)
A professional format widely adopted by the broadcast industry. It's claim to fame so to speak was it's true component video recording technique that offered substantial improvement in bandwidth, signal to noise ratios and the virtual elimination of "chroma crawl" found in the earlier "color under" heterodyne formats such as 3/4-U. It quickly became the standard news gathering format of choice among professionals."

Then in 1986
"BetaCam-SP (1986)
An enhancement to the original Betacam format, It offered increased bandwidth and the ability to record on metal particle tape compared to the oxide tape used by the standard BetaCam format. The format was used in virtually all TV stations and was popular right up to the end of the 90's when digital formats were introduced. SP machines were backwards compatible with standard BetaCam. Ampex also marketed Betacam-SP machines with the CVR designation. They were actually re-badged Sony machines.

Today's digital formats - DVCAM for example, offers better quality at a much reduced price. Even so, well used (read: half dead) Betacam SP machines are commanding nothing short of outrageous prices even on eBay. From a technical as well as cost - benefit standpoint, It almost defies logic...."

Class dismissed!
Anyway, BetaCam did derive from the BetaMax and yet not the same format.