Shoot You Down - whatcha think?

DogmaticVox

DogmaticVox

Meh...
So posted this in the marketing forum, but I wanted to lay it out here to be ripped apart. ;)

Let me know what you guys think. I altered some of my normal recording methods, especially with the drums and I think I like the result.

Here's the link to stream it HERE. I don't have access to Soundcloud at work otherwise I would link it up there, sorry.

-Garry
 
Wow, great stuff man. I love hearing tracks here that don't sound home recorded at all. This is one of those...
 
Thanks. Most of the stuff I learned has been through trial and error and this forum. And it helps that I got a hold of an Oktava MK-219 and used that for vocals and I love it.
 
Hmm...I've got a 219. The first condenser mic I ever bought. I haven't touched it in years. Maybe I should...
 
Not bad. Very modern sounding. I think the guitars are pretty good. Fit the style. I have to respectfully disagree with whitestrat though. I think it has all the tell-tale signs of a home recording. Iffy drums, muddy bass, overhyped highs, etc. The drums are kind of bad to me. Particularly the kick and snare. The kick is plasticky and hollow sounding. It's not doing anything for the low end IMO. The snare is kind of clumsy. It's has some pop, but not an authoritative presence. I think a tighter crack with some body overtones would suit the song better. The toms are kind of soft too. No pop. The leads are kind of buried and roomy. I dunno. I'd compare this to something like the Foo Fighters and when you listen to their mixes, it's all big but everything is there. I know they're pros and all that, but I think this could be better. I think you're close, it just needs some fine tuning.
 
Greg_L said:
Not bad. Very modern sounding. I think the guitars are pretty good. Fit the style. I have to respectfully disagree with whitestrat though. I think it has all the tell-tale signs of a home recording. Iffy drums, muddy bass, overhyped highs, etc. The drums are kind of bad to me. Particularly the kick and snare. The kick is plasticky and hollow sounding. It's not doing anything for the low end IMO. The snare is kind of clumsy. It's has some pop, but not an authoritative presence. I think a tighter crack with some body overtones would suit the song better. The toms are kind of soft too. No pop. The leads are kind of buried and roomy. I dunno. I'd compare this to something like the Foo Fighters and when you listen to their mixes, it's all big but everything is there. I know they're pros and all that, but I think this could be better. I think you're close, it just needs some fine tuning.
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I hear what you're saying--and I can hear each of those individual things. I guess for me, the song and/or the mix just sounded "mature" if that makes any sense. It had purpose, like he really meant it. So much of home recording (mine included) doesn't sound very sure of itself.
 
Greg_L said:
Not bad. Very modern sounding. I think the guitars are pretty good. Fit the style. I have to respectfully disagree with whitestrat though. I think it has all the tell-tale signs of a home recording. Iffy drums, muddy bass, overhyped highs, etc. The drums are kind of bad to me. Particularly the kick and snare. The kick is plasticky and hollow sounding. It's not doing anything for the low end IMO. The snare is kind of clumsy. It's has some pop, but not an authoritative presence. I think a tighter crack with some body overtones would suit the song better. The toms are kind of soft too. No pop. The leads are kind of buried and roomy. I dunno. I'd compare this to something like the Foo Fighters and when you listen to their mixes, it's all big but everything is there. I know they're pros and all that, but I think this could be better. I think you're close, it just needs some fine tuning.
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I do like where I have the lead at. It wasn't originally in the tune but I went back and recorded it to fill in the song a little more. I intentionally wanted that "solo in an empty room" sound with it pushed back a little. Now with the drums - For the kick I have two tracks. One was the B52 on the front in the port and the other was a sm57 next to the pedal pointed at the beater. I also had two tracks for the snare - your typical over / under setup. What do you think needs to be done to get more of the crack into the snare without losing the body? And what do you suggest doing with the kick? For the bass guitar, should I reduce the bottom end and increase the mids? And on the guitars, should I put a low-pass filter on the guitars and cut them down to like 2-3k?

As far as the Foo Fighters comparison - yeah, I can hear that but I'm sure just the cost of their signal chain they use is more than I make in a year. haha
 
It sounds like maybe you are low-passing the snare too low? Bring some highs back into the snare and try a wide but not super large boost around 8k to see if that helps emphasize the crack a little. Try a slight boost around 12k on the bottom snare mic? I don't know if there is much that can be done, since it sounds like the snare itself is not a very tight cracking snare...
 
I think you've done a good job here. The drums sound pretty good to me. Upfront guitars and phrasing does sound very Foo-ish. There are some tweaks you could make to polish and smooth the mix a bit but at some point you have to call it done.
 
DogmaticVox said:
Now with the drums - For the kick I have two tracks. One was the B52 on the front in the port and the other was a sm57 next to the pedal pointed at the beater. I also had two tracks for the snare - your typical over / under setup. What do you think needs to be done to get more of the crack into the snare without losing the body?
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In this instance, I'd probably go for more top head mic and less bottom mic. I think the bottom mic is your problem. did you flip the phase on the bottom mic? I personally rarely use one, and if you can tell it's there in the mix, you're using it wrong IMO. And of course it's possible that the snare just doesn't sound very good on it's own. A good recording of a bad snare is just a good recording of a bad snare.

And what do you suggest doing with the kick?
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Just get a better blend of the two mics. Did you flip the phase on one of them? I'm a pretty firm believer that if you can't get a usable track with one mic on one source, then you have no business using two. Two mics on one drum pointing in different directions can complicate things. I guess look for some low end from the Beta52 and get the attack from the 57. What I remember from your kick sound was a spiky attack with a weak fluff underneath. Whatever attack frequency you accentuated was neither natural or pleasing sounding. Look for a more natural slap sound with the 57, and more boom from the 52. Blend them and maybe compress them together. Cutting the boxy low mids in a kick can actually make it sound deeper and cleaner and you won't need so much high end attack for it to cut through. Just play with it more.

For the bass guitar, should I reduce the bottom end and increase the mids?
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Maybe. How was it recorded? I like midrange in a bass, but that's just me. Some people like them low and rumbly without much articulation. I like just the opposite.

And on the guitars, should I put a low-pass filter on the guitars and cut them down to like 2-3k?
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I wouldn't mess with the guitars. They were the best part of the mix to me.
 
Greg_L said:
In this instance, I'd probably go for more top head mic and less bottom mic. I think the bottom mic is your problem. did you flip the phase on the bottom mic? I personally rarely use one, and if you can tell it's there in the mix, you're using it wrong IMO. And of course it's possible that the snare just doesn't sound very good on it's own. A good recording of a bad snare is just a good recording of a bad snare.
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I did invert the phase on the under snare. My over is at about -1.9db and the under is at 6.9. I'll try dropping it down even more and just muting it as well and see how it comes out. The snare is indeed tuned a little lower though. So I don't think I'll be able to get the gunshot crack out of it, but it may still be able to get some more bite.

Greg_L said:
Just get a better blend of the two mics. Did you flip the phase on one of them? I'm a pretty firm believer that if you can't get a usable track with one mic on one source, then you have no business using two. Two mics on one drum pointing in different directions can complicate things. I guess look for some low end from the Beta52 and get the attack from the 57. What I remember from your kick sound was a spiky attack with a weak fluff underneath. Whatever attack frequency you accentuated was neither natural or pleasing sounding. Look for a more natural slap sound with the 57, and more boom from the 52. Blend them and maybe compress them together. Cutting the boxy low mids in a kick can actually make it sound deeper and cleaner and you won't need so much high end attack for it to cut through. Just play with it more.
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I did flip the phase on the second one. I have the volume bumped on on the beta and eq'd for the boomy low end and use the 57 on the opposite side pointed at the beater to get the pop. I'll try lower the beta down a bit and cutting out those low mids from it. I see how this can give a little more clarity to the kick and can't wait to try it.

Greg_L said:
Maybe. How was it recorded? I like midrange in a bass, but that's just me. Some people like them low and rumbly without much articulation. I like just the opposite.
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I've got it double tracked. I used an e609 on the cab for one track and the other is the DI. I normally like the bass sound you'd here on a Face to Face record, but this time I went for a more boomy sound. The DI on this sounded really good, so I'll try dropping the cab mic'd track down lower and let the mids from the DI push through a bit more so you can hear the articulation on the bass a little better - it's just that fine line though of taking the power out of the guitars once the bass loses that bottom end power that's really tough to straddle - for me anyways.

Thanks for the tips though. Like I mentioned to WhiteStrat, aside from just dicking around and figuring out stuff as I go, I've learned a hell of a lot from you guys here.
 
I like the song a lot. Very well written and performed. I think the guitars should come down a bit as they are taking away energy from other elements in the mix when it all gets pressed through the final limiter.

I'm hearing a fair amount of reverb tails from something and I can't figure out what it is. I think it is adding a lot of smear (for lack of better word) to the mix and you should back off.

I'm liking the snare and I don't think you should change it.

None-the-less, this song is nearly done and ready for the radio. Small tweaks here and there.
Cool man,
 
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