She-Wolf - Greg_L original

[Greg_L]

excellent...made a difference

I dont think your destined to say anything with your lyrics..your voice is another instrument..and this does rock with your cock out

Thanks again dude. Good call on the gits. I think it does sound better this way.

 

[Pinky]

The bass is distorted and panned 5% to the right. I want it to pop out in certain areas - like when I get up on the G string. Haha, G string. I think I get what you're saying, but I don't know how to make just the highs come out somewhere else. I like the bass near the middle. I'm not into weird panning.

I definitely wouldn't change what you have as it's hard to capture the details of the bass like you did. If you duplicated the track, EQ'd the second track differently and panned it 5% left and did a very minor stereo offset it would probably stand out more with less volume/gain but won't sit 'stuck' as it does now. It really isn't a bad effect you have going, it just doesn't fit to my ears. The bass tone you have works, just need to get it stitched with the guitars a bit better. I spend a lot of time on these details, and maybe too much time. If you saw some of the sonar project files you'd be like "WTF are you doing?", then I would need to explain for 20 minutes. Instead, I'll stop now!

Lol. Thanks, but you didn't touch a nerve. Trust me, I know my lyrics are stupid. I genuinely don't care. I'm not pompous enough to think that anyone wants to hear anything I have to say - if I actually had something to say. And on the flip-side, I'm not interested in hearing someone else's lame ass opinions or feelings set to music. Even in music I like, lyrical content means nothing to me. I'd be just fine if a guitar played the vocal melody. If someone else wrote my lyrics, it wouldn't be my song, and fuck that. I'm only interested in big drums and loud guitars at breakneck speeds. If people like it, great. If they don't, that's great too. I make my music for myself.

Frank Zappa. If you just said that I would have got it and our conversation on this ended 2 replies ago. In which case, perhaps your lyrics aren't over-the-top lame enough! Think "fart joke" then add a hint of SNL brand humor and a touch of Steven Wright.

My apologies. Had I known we were talking deconstructive nihilist existentialism I would have put on my helmet. One of the reasons I write a lot of instrumentals and don't get hung up on finding and working with vocalists is that I often find myself not even hearing the vocals in harder music while driving, and I primarily write "good driving music". I can relate. My assumption was that because you spent the time to write and perform the vocals as well as you did, that you intended they have some meaning behind them.

 

[Greg_L]

I definitely wouldn't change what you have as it's hard to capture the details of the bass like you did. If you duplicated the track, EQ'd the second track differently and panned it 5% left and did a very minor stereo offset it would probably stand out more with less volume/gain but won't sit 'stuck' as it does now. It really isn't a bad effect you have going, it just doesn't fit to my ears. The bass tone you have works, just need to get it stitched with the guitars a bit better. I spend a lot of time on these details, and maybe too much time. If you saw some of the sonar project files you'd be like "WTF are you doing?", then I would need to explain for 20 minutes. Instead, I'll stop now!

Yeah bro, you lost me.

Frank Zappa. If you just said that I would have got it and our conversation on this ended 2 replies ago. In which case, perhaps your lyrics aren't over-the-top lame enough! Think "fart joke" then add a hint of SNL brand humor and a touch of Steven Wright.

My apologies. Had I known we were talking deconstructive nihilist existentialism I would have put on my helmet. One of the reasons I write a lot of instrumentals and don't get hung up on finding and working with vocalists is that I often find myself not even hearing the vocals in harder music while driving, and I primarily write "good driving music". I can relate. My assumption was that because you spent the time to write and perform the vocals as well as you did, that you intended they have some meaning behind them.

Fair enough. I appreciate you taking the time to voice your opinion on my humble little song here. I do try to perform the vocals well, and mix them well, but the content is meaningless. I just try to come up with words that rhyme.

 

[Pinky]

Yeah bro, you lost me.

Just for sake of being clear so that other people might hear what I'm hearing (as well as maybe being of help to you should you choose to take the advice)...

The low-end of the bass fits fine. It chugs along, I can hear it most of the time I need to. The mid/highs of the bass are usually very audible, and the tone is actually quite good. That detail on a bass recording is a welcome thing IMO. BUT, the mid/highs kinda sit blandly smack in the middle of the sound field, completely alone and dull. The rest of the guitars, drums, and vocals are well distributed in the sound field from what I could hear. Those are spot on. It would be advantageous for the sake of continuity in the production to have the bass also sit a bit (and just a slight bit) more 'stereo' with the rest of the instrumentation.

I propose to do this, you take the bass track as-is, duplicate it so you then have 2 bass tracks, then try the stereo pan effect I linked above to see if it 'pops' a bit more from the left/right rather than dead center as it does now.

 

[Greg_L]

Just for sake of being clear so that other people might hear what I'm hearing (as well as maybe being of help to you should you choose to take the advice)...

The low-end of the bass fits fine. It chugs along, I can hear it most of the time I need to. The mid/highs of the bass are usually very audible, and the tone is actually quite good. That detail on a bass recording is a welcome thing IMO. BUT, the mid/highs kinda sit blandly smack in the middle of the sound field, completely alone and dull. The rest of the guitars, drums, and vocals are well distributed in the sound field from what I could hear. Those are spot on. It would be advantageous for the sake of continuity in the production to have the bass also sit a bit (and just a slight bit) more 'stereo' with the rest of the instrumentation.

I propose to do this, you take the bass track as-is, duplicate it so you then have 2 bass tracks, then try the stereo pan effect I linked above to see if it 'pops' a bit more from the left/right rather than dead center as it does now.

What about just a chorus effect? What you're proposing puts it out of phase with itself. I know what you're getting at, but I personally don't like that sound. I think it works okay on vocals sometimes.

 

[antichef]

another great one -- I can't listen with the good monitors, because Ms. Chef is convalescing in the room where they are, but this sounds pretty good on the crappy set.

 

[RAMI]

Um....duplicating a track does absolutely nothing other than make it louder.

 

[Pinky]

What about just a chorus effect? What you're proposing puts it out of phase with itself. I know what you're getting at, but I personally don't like that sound. I think it works okay on vocals sometimes.

You're doing it very slightly, and you can do all sorts of things with the % of pan and volume/gain on each track to get a fit using this method. The phase is barely noticeable and it doesn't take much tinkering to get a good result. You're also only going to pan a few degrees. If you hard pan more than 40% then you will definitely get more of an awkward effect, which can be useful if that's the intent.

The other option is to add a chorus effect that fattens the sound a bit, expanding the stereo effect for the track. You have less control over this depending on whether your chorus effect is real time, otherwise you have to apply, listen, undo and tweak the settings until you get it right. Doing the stereo offset trick gives you immediate control over the sound and tweaking in real time is very easy.

Um....duplicating a track does absolutely nothing other than make it louder.

Please read my suggestion again and follow the link. It's not just duplicating the track. You manually nudge one of the tracks then pan them in opposite directions for a stereo pan effect. The percent panned and gain of each track give you a ton of control over where the instrument sits in the mix. The key is to nudge just a tiny bit. I have to turn off snapping and zoom in quite a way to ensure I don't move the track too much. The degree of nudge greatly impacts the amount of stereo effect and too much becomes a reverby mess, so a few seconds of trial and error finds the right amount to fatten the track without altering the sound of the track.

FWIW, I rarely use this trick any more because I have good chorus effects while tracking and usually double guitars that really require a fattened sound. But for previously recorded single tracks this is still the best method I know to fatten it. Most plugins that accomplish this do exactly what I describe with the track, you just don't obviously see them doing it, and you have to work within their interface to get a result versus just using the pan and gain controls on the mixing console as I'm suggesting.

 

[LemonTree]

I just try to come up with words that rhyme.

Do a song with "shoe & glue"

Haven't listened yet but I will do.

 

[Greg_L]

another great one -- I can't listen with the good monitors, because Ms. Chef is convalescing in the room where they are, but this sounds pretty good on the crappy set.

Thanks dude.

You're doing it very slightly, and you can do all sorts of things with the % of pan and volume/gain on each track to get a fit using this method. The phase is barely noticeable and it doesn't take much tinkering to get a good result. You're also only going to pan a few degrees. If you hard pan more than 40% then you will definitely get more of an awkward effect, which can be useful if that's the intent.

The other option is to add a chorus effect that fattens the sound a bit, expanding the stereo effect for the track. You have less control over this depending on whether your chorus effect is real time, otherwise you have to apply, listen, undo and tweak the settings until you get it right. Doing the stereo offset trick gives you immediate control over the sound and tweaking in real time is very easy.




Please read my suggestion again and follow the link. It's not just duplicating the track. You manually nudge one of the tracks then pan them in opposite directions for a stereo pan effect. The percent panned and gain of each track give you a ton of control over where the instrument sits in the mix. The key is to nudge just a tiny bit. I have to turn off snapping and zoom in quite a way to ensure I don't move the track too much. The degree of nudge greatly impacts the amount of stereo effect and too much becomes a reverby mess, so a few seconds of trial and error finds the right amount to fatten the track without altering the sound of the track.

FWIW, I rarely use this trick any more because I have good chorus effects while tracking and usually double guitars that really require a fattened sound. But for previously recorded single tracks this is still the best method I know to fatten it. Most plugins that accomplish this do exactly what I describe with the track, you just don't obviously see them doing it, and you have to work within their interface to get a result versus just using the pan and gain controls on the mixing console as I'm suggesting.

I totally get what you're saying, but a bass is a mono instrument and I don't want it fatter. If I wanted a stereo bass effect, I'd just track it again. It's fine to me. I've done what you're describing with lead guitar parts and vocals. It works okay with that stuff, but it's still not something I do often. The last thing I want is a muddied up weird sounding bass track.

Do a song with "shoe & glue"

Haven't listened yet but I will do.

Lol.

 

[heatmiser]

Yeah, this sounds great Greg.

Really high energy this time - even for you.

I'm pretty much with you on the whole lyrical content thing. For the most part, I could care less what is being said, but instead just hear the singer's voice like another instrument (one that I often wish would be replaced with a different instrument !), so as long as I like the sound of the singers voice, they could pretty much be singing about dingleberries for all I care.

Anyway, nice job on this. Your sound is so consistent and you really do what you do very well. I'd love to hear you apply your process to more varied musical styles, but I think you're pretty singular in your interest, which is fine too.

 

[cantthinkofname]

YOU ROCK boob! that was too excellent, i loved your jambalaya cover too one of my favorite songs!

 

[dodgeaspen]

You got it this time bro. Sounds fine. BTW I like it because it is different and unique.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah, this sounds great Greg.

Really high energy this time - even for you.

I'm pretty much with you on the whole lyrical content thing. For the most part, I could care less what is being said, but instead just hear the singer's voice like another instrument (one that I often wish would be replaced with a different instrument !), so as long as I like the sound of the singers voice, they could pretty much be singing about dingleberries for all I care.

Anyway, nice job on this. Your sound is so consistent and you really do what you do very well. I'd love to hear you apply your process to more varied musical styles, but I think you're pretty singular in your interest, which is fine too.

Thanks heat. I appreciate it. My musical scope is paper thin, but that's fine. I'm happier than a whore in a dildo factory just doing my thing. I challenge anyone to make my music better than I do.

Having said that, I'm tracking the drums tomorrow for my self-proclaimed epic prog/punk clusterfuck catastropiece. 9+ minutes of tom foolery. Stay tuned for that shit. It's gonna be awesome or a total disaster. I'm thinking disaster.

YOU ROCK boob! that was too excellent, i loved your jambalaya cover too one of my favorite songs!

Thanks a lot, whatever your name is. Yeah, that Jambalaya cover was a lot of fun. I still listen to it myself sometimes.

You got it this time bro. Sounds fine. BTW I like it because it is different and unique.

Sweet, thanks. Different and unique huh? That's cool. I think you're the first person to say that about my stuff. I think it's different too, but everyone thinks their own stuff is different. No one wants to be cliche, but I'm cool with it if I am. No one cares that the Beatles totally ripped off Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry.

 

[nave]

The good news: That recording is totally awesome. Gerg does rule. The bad news: You couldn't pay me to listen to that song again. lol.

 

[Greg_L]

The good news: That recording is totally awesome. Gerg does rule. The bad news: You couldn't pay me to listen to that song again. lol.

Wow, thanks navel. I'm admittedly shocked to find you in here. I understand it's not your thing. There's no estrogen in my music.

 

[kcearl]

you sound like the beatles dude...

 

[nave]

Yeah, No Estrogen? I thought I was listening to Imagine.

 

[Greg_L]

you sound like the beatles dude...

I am the walrus.

Yeah, No Estrogen? I thought I was listening to Imagine.

For whatever reason you found your way to the mp3 clinic, serious kudos to you for checking some stuff out and giving feedback. I will now award you 5 points which brings you up a whole notch from wheelemo. Congrats!

 

[Pinky]

but a bass is a mono instrument and I don't want it fatter. If I wanted a stereo bass effect, I'd just track it again.

Everything else discussed aside (that horse can be buried)...

I'm curious why you think/feel this way. I've applied heavy stereo effects to bass tracks with good results.

I know it's standard to treat the bass as something reserved (relegated) to the middle of the mix, but that middle space is defined by more than just where the bass sits. Middle can mean anything relative to wherever the remaining instruments are mixed. Hell, most pedestrian reverb effects are still stereo.