Setting up a Drum Bus

[adam79]

^^^That depends on what you want for relative pan position, though there are ways to change that once it gets to the bus. To a certain extent it depends what you intend to do at the bus itself, but it's mostly about what makes most sense to you.

I've been hard panning the OH pair, 100% R, 100% L. It just makes it easier on me and the CPU cuz I'm using the same plugins on each OH track...this way I only have to use 'em once.

I'm still having balancing issues tho. It just seems like my mix is all over the place; I really need to tighten things up. I'm slowly getting better at it (atleast I hope I am). I think some of it might have to do with my gain staging; it seems like my master track is always clipping. If I set everything too low the final product is too soft. A peak/mastering limiter might help me, for the final stage on the Master Track. Does Waves have a good one? I'm gonna have a $99 store credit once I return the Nx plugin. I've read good things about the Massey L2007 Mastering Limiter and Sonnox Oxford Limiter, but they aren't Waves products (I don't have the cash to invest in anything right now). Would the L1 Ultramaximizer be their version? I've been reading up Waves plugins, searching stuff like "best Waves plugins," and the L1 is usually in all those lists. Unfortunately for me it's $149.

 

[jimmys69]

Fabfilter Pro-L way better than the Waves L1 and any other I have purchased. $199 tho.

 

[adam79]

Fabfilter Pro-L way better than the Waves L1 and any other I have purchased. $199 tho.

That's not a Waves plugin tho. The $99 I'm getting is a store credit to the Waves store only. Like I was saying, I don't have the cash to invest at the moment, so I need to go with a Waves plug. I might be able to scrounge together $50 if the L1 is as good as what I've read online.
I don't necessarily need a Mastering Limiter, but it's definitely something at the top of my list. If there's a definite MUST HAVE Waves plugin, I'd rather go with that one...if it exists; I'm sure it's subjective. Any recommendations are welcome. Thanks.

 

[adam79]

Here's a picture of my drum mic setup:

The two overheads (the one high up and the one by the floor tom and ride) are both 47" from the middle of the snare. The floor tom side mic is around 6" above the floor tom; I postilion it in-between the cymbal and tom, and facing straight across the floor tom. The snare mic, which is also faces directly across the snare is 4.5" away and 2" high. The kick mic is 13" off the ground and 4" away from the back of the kick, slightly off axis. I haven't done that much experimenting with the kick mic since the mic itself is utter shit. It's a 40$ Shure AXS 2, a bottom of the barrel vocal mic if I remember correctly. I don't even remember if I bought this mic or just grabbed it from a generous friend that had recently upgraded his locker and had zero use for it!\

Quick question on tracking the two overheads. I have a UA Apollo Duo interface. If you're unfamiliar with the unit it has and awesome feature called Unison that allows you to load a preamp plugin that works in conjunction with the interface, i.e. when I knob is moved on the plugin it's moved on the unit itself.. so it's almost like you're using that preamp as outboard gear. I use it 90% of the time on all the micpres. Currently, I've been using the UA 610-B plugin via the Unison technology and setting it to the "Drum-Overheads" preset. Here's what that setting looks like:

I've been using this same preset on both OH mics. I'm just wondering if I should be switching it up a bit (preset/setting wise), since the two OH's are in drastically different positions (one high up, pretty much facing towards the center of the kit and the other by the floor tom and ride.

There's also a similar preset that I've only tried for a few minutes on the high OH called "Drum-HighHat and Cymbals." Both the 610-A and 610-B have the preset; here's what they look like:

I'm curious what your thoughts are as to what to do in this situation with the overheads. I always move down the gain to -10 to avoid clipping, so if you see a -10 in the picture that was done by me. The presets are usually set between -5 and +5.

 

[jkuehlin]

What is a "2 bus"? Is that a term or just a regular stereo bus? So you basically have two drum busses. 1 that's not processed and the other crushed?

Yup. Stereo bus, or main out. FYI, its mainly a music term whereas film and post guys have more than 2 channels in their final delivery format. Us post guys use between 6 and 40 busses for our main outs.

 

[jkuehlin]

Are using one specific comp. from that plugin bundle, or u switching 'em up?

That one had all Slate for demonstration purposes. On a normal mix I'd use just about anything. For comps, I own the entire libraries from Waves, Slate, Soundtoys, Melda, Nomad, Fab Filter, Oxford, and Plugin alliance, but on the Plugin alliance end, I have the v3.5, which is missing 8 plugs from the 4.1 update. But they're out of their damn minds asking for $700 for those 8 plugins that are cool but completely unnecessary.

Own a good 80% of UAD, Lexicon, and Izotope plugs.

I don't use McDsp and Massey at all. I use some PSP but actually only have licenses for about 10 of them...the Vintage Warmer, Piano Verb, and a couple other I can't remember.

For kicks I do use a lot of sample replacement. Mostly with the XLN addictive trigger. Thats become a mainstay in my mixes. The XLN addictive trigger is compatible with the Fxpansion BFD libraries. When they went on sale I bought out everything from Slate and Fxpansion. Pathetic as it sounds, I usually end up using about 5 of those samples from each library. But on occasion when I need a replacement sample thats really out of the ordinary, I can find just about anything.

So yeah...that's what I use for compressors and samples to make huge but realistic sounding kick drums.

I only have 4 mics to work with (not sure if I already mentioned that).. a pair of MCA SP1 LDC (although advertised as LDC's, they're prob more medium sized), one SM 57 and a crappy $40 Shure mic. I've been using the Glyn Johns technique on the drums and it seems to be working well. It's hard to get a good sound on the kick w/ that crappy Shure...its really boxy sounding. I think it's partly the mic's fault, part tuning...I've been waiting on a buddy of mine to come by and tune them for me. The lack of any acoustical treatment also doesn't help much. Still though, it sounds half decent.

All good man. Work with what you have. Everyone has to start somewhere. When I started recording I had a macbook, a pair of KRK's and a $100 audio technica vocal mic lol (it was an AT2020). If you're recording a lot of drums, its worth your time to get a good kick mic. 75% of your sound is your kick mic and your overheads. They capture the true image of the drum set (especially if you're Glyn Johns-ing it). The close mics just kind of fill in the missing information. The direct mics on the toms are only to capture the transient attack of the stick hitting the skin. Don't rely on them for resonance, body, or tone. That all comes from your overheads and your room mics. If you need a budget pair to get you buy, you can get Nady DM 70's for chump change (like $8-$10 pr mic) and they'll get you by. Buy em used. For kick mics I use an AKG D12e, MD421, Re20, Beta 52, or an AKG d112. I don't like the Audix D6. I also use boundary mics when necessary. If you can snag a Beta 52 or a D112 its a good starting place, as the others are a lot more money. Also the Heil mics might be worth a try.

 

[jkuehlin]

I've recently been sending my two OH mics to a stereo bus (via the sends) and then sending that bus (via the main outputs) to the drum bus.

I would not send them using sends. I'd send them using the main outputs unless you have a compelling reason to use the sends instead. What's the reason you're doing it that way?

When sending the two OH mics to the OH bus, I've been sending each on it's own mono bus...meaning if the OH Bus I'm using is Bus 7-8, one OH mic will be sent to Bus 7 and the other to Bus 8. Is this how it's usually done, or is it more personal preference than "the right way"? I guess this question would work for any two mono tracks being sent to a stereo bus.

Ashcats answer was quite accurate. But when it comes to the 'right way', I'd say it'd be more practical to use your direct outs to the bus instead of your sends. I agree with him that its a question of relative pan position.

 

[jkuehlin]

I've been hard panning the OH pair, 100% R, 100% L. It just makes it easier on me and the CPU cuz I'm using the same plugins on each OH track...this way I only have to use 'em once.

I'm still having balancing issues tho. It just seems like my mix is all over the place; I really need to tighten things up. I'm slowly getting better at it (atleast I hope I am). I think some of it might have to do with my gain staging; it seems like my master track is always clipping. If I set everything too low the final product is too soft. A peak/mastering limiter might help me, for the final stage on the Master Track. Does Waves have a good one? I'm gonna have a $99 store credit once I return the Nx plugin. I've read good things about the Massey L2007 Mastering Limiter and Sonnox Oxford Limiter, but they aren't Waves products (I don't have the cash to invest in anything right now). Would the L1 Ultramaximizer be their version? I've been reading up Waves plugins, searching stuff like "best Waves plugins," and the L1 is usually in all those lists. Unfortunately for me it's $149.

Oops. Didn't see this post! lol...

Ok...now that we know what's going on with your panning situation...use the direct outputs from your OH tracks strait to your Bus. Set your eq and light compression on the direct tracks. Then feed it to the bus directly. Not through the sends. Once you send them to bus 7-8 (as in your example) polish it up. Then send bus 7-8 to bus 8-9 through the sends. Then at bus 8-9, nuke the shit out it. That's your crusher track. I mean hit it with tube limiters, distortion units, tape saturators, expanders, transient designers...whatever the hell you have sitting around. I use the Soundtoys Decapitator and Devil Loc on mine and just brutalize the piss out of it. Once it's nuked to kingdom come, bring your fader all the way down to zero. Then slowly and gradually raise the fader from bus 8-9 until you can hear just enough of 8-9 to thicken up and control what you're hearing from bus 7-8.

Now to really make it sound cool, create a second send from bus 7-8, and send it to 10-11. On 10-11 place a reverb unit. Then place a compressor after the reverb unit. Set the reverb 100% wet, but keep the compressor after it to a 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio with medium attack and medium release. And don't take off more than 4-5 db of gain reduction. Then do the same thing. Bring the fader down to zero, then ease it into the mix.

...Jimmy made good recommendation for Fab Filter Pro L, but there are a lot of guys (including myself) that like the L1 just as much. One of my personal fav is actually the izotope maximizer. I think its a little more flexible than the Pro L, but the problem is that you can't buy it as a standalone module.

If you have an EQ plug pultec or a neve emulator, experiment with running it infront of the limiter on your 2 bus. Also, if you have an SSL G compressor, or Focusrite Red 3 plug, put it in between the EQ plug and the limiter. That can really really help control your mix and glue all the color in the mix together.

 

[jkuehlin]

I can't see your pictures. This is whats showing up on my browser. I tried Firefox too...they're not showing up.

 

[jkuehlin]

Quick question on tracking the two overheads. I have a UA Apollo Duo interface. If you're unfamiliar with the unit it has and awesome feature called Unison that allows you to load a preamp plugin that works in conjunction with the interface,

...what plugins do you have?

 

[adam79]

...what plugins do you have?

Not nearly as many as I'd like..

For UA, I have:

-CS1
-EMT 140
-Fairchild 670 Legacy (Legacy is the UA freebie version)
-Helios 69
-Neve 33609
-Neve 88RS Legacy
-Precision Channel Strip
-Precision Delay Mod
-Precision Delay Mod L
-Precision Enhancer Hz
-Precision Reflection Engine
-Pultec EQP-1A Legacy
-Pultec-Pro Legacy
-Raw
-Reverb-Pro
-Teletronix LA-2 Collection (LA-2, LA-2A Gray, LA-2A Silver)
-UA 1176LN Legacy
-UA 610-A
-UA 610-B

Then just the standard stuff that comes with PT, like the AIR collection and so on. I also have the VUMT and the Nx Virtual Room that I'll be returning for the $99 Waves store credit.

 

[jkuehlin]

Do you have the Avid Pro Limiter? If so, I would get the waves Autotuner lite before anything else.

If not, I'd wait for the CLA-76 compressor set to go on sale. Possibly the Abbey Road Plates, but that EMT140 you already have is a very good plug. You have good collection there and can do quite a bit with what you have. The Pro Tools stock plugins are much better than some make them out to be. Why the CLA 76 when you already have the UA ones? Because the Waves ones sound and act different enough to where I would wan to have them as options. And 1176's are very popular on drums particularly.

 

[adam79]

Do you have the Avid Pro Limiter? If so, I would get the waves Autotuner lite before anything else.

If not, I'd wait for the CLA-76 compressor set to go on sale. Possibly the Abbey Road Plates, but that EMT140 you already have is a very good plug. You have good collection there and can do quite a bit with what you have. The Pro Tools stock plugins are much better than some make them out to be. Why the CLA 76 when you already have the UA ones? Because the Waves ones sound and act different enough to where I would wan to have them as options. And 1176's are very popular on drums particularly.

I'm a rock guy, not into Autotune stuff. I debated on the LA2 and 1176 Collections and ended up opting for the LA2; I forget my reasoning at the time, but I'm definitely happy with my decision. It might have been that I liked the LA2 Legacy version better than the 1176 Legacy.

Moving off the plugins for a moment, I'm having an issue with the gain staging on my two overhead mics. I'm using the 610-B in the Unison mode (that I explained earlier) at it's lowest gain setting, -10dB. I still end up using the Normalize plugin and Render the two tracks at around -14dB, so they don't clip on the VUMT. Is there anyway for me to get them to hit the drive any lower? I guess I could lower the Input and Output of the 610-B. Ever since I switched my dBFS to -20 my mixes sound cleaner, but come out at a WAY lower volume than before. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[jkuehlin]

I have the UAD plugs but not a unison interface...I'm not sure.

 

[adam79]

I have the UAD plugs but not a unison interface...I'm not sure.

It's more of a general question, although I guess it does have alot, it not all, to do with the gain settings on the interface. I'll ask over on the UA forum.