separate tracks from mixer

[Bobbsy]

For the 4 mixer channels on your Mackie that have inserts, you can plug in a cable into the insert jack "to the first click" (plug it 1/2 way into the jack) and that insert will function like a direct out. So if you do get an audio interface with at least 4 line inputs, you can have 4 discrete preamplified outputs from your mixer.

I think most audio interfaces have preamps built in nowadays. But this trick was a huge deal for me when I was using a Yamaha MG102 mixer with my Delta44 interface.

Use of this "trick" pulls the direct out from the mixer just after the gain trim knob but before the EQ, auxes and faders. This may be what some want but it also nullifies some of the advantages of using a mixer in the first place (for example, the easy, tactile way of setting levels on a fader).

...not necessarily a deal breaker but something to think about. And it also raises the issue of why use the mixer in the first place if all you can actually use are the pre amps.

 

[Tadpui]

Use of this "trick" pulls the direct out from the mixer just after the gain trim knob but before the EQ, auxes and faders. This may be what some want but it also nullifies some of the advantages of using a mixer in the first place (for example, the easy, tactile way of setting levels on a fader).

...not necessarily a deal breaker but something to think about. And it also raises the issue of why use the mixer in the first place if all you can actually use are the pre amps.

Definitely a good point. In my case, it was cool because the MG102 is just a single stereo bus mixer. Taking channels 1 & 2 out of the mixer before they hit the main bus was a way to free up the main bus for 2 additional discrete outputs (control room out L+R) so I could use all 4 preamps individually. Though it made monitoring a pain in the neck. It was a good cheap way to get 4 preamps at the time.

 

[jimmy3]

Well I see in forums lot of people get the wrong understanding that mixers can record multitrack, they purchase one, only to find the hard truth, that its not capable of. Alas ... even I am not saved! . So Flowman, you are not alone .
I purchased a Yamaha MW12CX USB mixer about a year ago, not just purely for recording purposes, but also for bit of live music monitoring. I had the opinion then that the multi channels = multi tracks in recording.
But I found later that USB mixers can only record 2 channels (stereo), and by that time it was too late. I have however used for live monitoring and mixing, and also recorded instrumental tracks I created with my Korg Pa500. So much is fun. But few issues I experienced:

1. It can record only stereo mix (already spoken about). Its only USB 1.1, and not 2.0.
2. Although the instrumental tracks were recorded pretty good (if not the best), the quality of vocal was far from good.
3. Recodings are limited to 44Khz rate only.
4. The DSP effects the mixer board doesnt get cascaded to the audio I was recording. Later after lot of research I found out that that can only be done with an external effects processor, with Aux sends or FX Inserts. None of the documentation mentioned this bit!

Now my only focus is to get the vocal part recorded nicely, and I donot intend to sell this one yet. Now as I understand, the only way to get this is via the audio interfaces. For me 4 channels should suffice for now.

1. I shortlisted few AIs: Focusrite 8i6 USB/6i6, M-Audio C400 (discontinued), TASCAM US-144MKII.
My heart says Focusrite for their award winning pre-amps as I hear, but my mind says M-Audio for the inserts they have provided, just in case I wish to do some external effects before recording the audio. Now qs is, is it really recommended that way? Or a dry record is always best with the effects done in DAW? The reverb/delay in the monitoring is another greed for the M-Audio, which isnt present both on Focusrite and Tascam.
Any suggestions which one should I go for?

2. If I go for a 6 channel AI, then I really donot need the mixer anymore. But then, are these AI's rough and tough to be taken for live shows?

3. I can also think of retaining my mixer, and only settle for a 2/2 AI. Focusrite 2i2 is the only one I shortlisted, as the M-Audio counterpart on 2 channel offer 44 Khz rec only. Now this might terribly limit my channels, so qs here is.... can a drum + Guitar recorded on a single track using the Guitar-->to Mixer-->to AI --> computer sound as good as (or nearly) the ones recorded with the AI only? Stupid qs may be, but then I can only concentrate on the vocal, and distribute my budget to purchase the one mentioned below.

4. Lastly, Live recording was also in my mind, so I almost had finalised for the Zoom R8/R16. But that comes at a price! Moreover, I am not sure how the audio pre-amps would be as compared to the AIs. So would anyone recommend to go for R16, which may solve both studio and live recoding? (personally I am still have reservations mixing the two requirements!). So if not, then can anyone suggest a good live recording USB gadget, be it a 2 channel stereo?

Burning qs are, are all these devices compatible with Cubase, which is what I use? M-Audio is too much pro tools, Focusrite comes with something else. So does these have of midi tracks as well? I'll find this out on the DAW side, so the 4 qs above are most imp.

Too many qs , but all these are constantly hovering my mind, and is holding me to finalize on something! Need help.

 

[mjbphotos]

You'll do better asking questions in a new thread, rather than dredging up an old one.

 

[Bobbsy]

1. I shortlisted few AIs: Focusrite 8i6 USB/6i6, M-Audio C400 (discontinued), TASCAM US-144MKII.
My heart says Focusrite for their award winning pre-amps as I hear, but my mind says M-Audio for the inserts they have provided, just in case I wish to do some external effects before recording the audio. Now qs is, is it really recommended that way? Or a dry record is always best with the effects done in DAW? The reverb/delay in the monitoring is another greed for the M-Audio, which isnt present both on Focusrite and Tascam.
Any suggestions which one should I go for?

You're far better off recording clean/dry and adding effects later. Once added during tracking, you're stuck with what you recorded even if you decide they're wrong for the mix. I'd probably go with Focusrite these days (discontinued products start to have driver issues soon) but don't don't be taken in by phrases like "award winning pre amps". It's advertising hype even if the product is good as with the Focusrite.

2. If I go for a 6 channel AI, then I really donot need the mixer anymore. But then, are these AI's rough and tough to be taken for live shows?

Probably tough enough but totally unsuitable for live mixing. The only output is via the USB so you'd have to run your live act via a computer with all the latency that entails--there ARE software programmes for live mixing but it's far easier to just use your mixer.

3. I can also think of retaining my mixer, and only settle for a 2/2 AI. Focusrite 2i2 is the only one I shortlisted, as the M-Audio counterpart on 2 channel offer 44 Khz rec only. Now this might terribly limit my channels, so qs here is.... can a drum + Guitar recorded on a single track using the Guitar-->to Mixer-->to AI --> computer sound as good as (or nearly) the ones recorded with the AI only? Stupid qs may be, but then I can only concentrate on the vocal, and distribute my budget to purchase the one mentioned below.

It's down to flexibility. Once committed to a single track you can't alter the balance between things in that track--you're stuck with what you recorded...probably in a situation without good monitoring and certainly without time to play much.

4. Lastly, Live recording was also in my mind, so I almost had finalised for the Zoom R8/R16. But that comes at a price! Moreover, I am not sure how the audio pre-amps would be as compared to the AIs. So would anyone recommend to go for R16, which may solve both studio and live recoding? (personally I am still have reservations mixing the two requirements!). So if not, then can anyone suggest a good live recording USB gadget, be it a 2 channel stereo?

The Zoom stuff is very good with pre amps as good as most AIs. However, the R16 is a portable STUDIO, not a live sound mixer. You'll still need a live mix and this'll involve splitting all your sources to go to both the R16 and your mixer. There are stage boxes/multicores that will do this for you.

Burning qs are, are all these devices compatible with Cubase, which is what I use? M-Audio is too much pro tools, Focusrite comes with something else. So does these have of midi tracks as well? I'll find this out on the DAW side, so the 4 qs above are most imp.

Too many qs , but all these are constantly hovering my mind, and is holding me to finalize on something! Need help.

Don't choose hardware based on the software that comes with it--it's always a stripped down version designed to simply tempt you into buying the full version anyway. Look at the software on the market and buy what you need in the first place. As always, it's worth looking at Reaper in terms of "bang for the buck".

Sorry, but basically you have to balance your budget against your desire to do multitrack recordings in both studio and live environments. If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it.

 

[jimmy3]

Thanks Bobbsy for your replies.

Sorry, but basically you have to balance your budget against your desire to do multitrack recordings in both studio and live environments. If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it.

Thats the hardest truth and the deciding factor! Esp in this realm, where there are too many things to choose from, and at times the next moment you purchase something, you realise it would have been better to purchase the other one... blah blah blah . I simply wish to avoid that this time.

You'll still need a live mix and this'll involve splitting all your sources to go to both the R16 and your mixer. There are stage boxes/multicores that will do this for you.

Good point, that was an eye opener. I was wondering, that with in the live shows I'll use the mixer for the audio outs, monitoring, and then insert them to the Zoom to record. But I missed a basic fact, there's no point going for multitrack R16s when the output of mixer (in most cases) would be stereo only! So need a bit of advise on this, pls suggest some good recorders which just can take 2 channel stereo inputs and record the audio. I'll meanwhile check out the multicores u mentioned and some two track recorders.

For the moment I am doing away with multi track recording as its my vocal and keyboard for the moment. So I would settle for a 2/2 AI to get the voice recording good. Just a question on that (might be a stupid one, but considering I already have a mixer its worth asking):
M-audio m-track records at 44KHz only. Now that the Yamaha mixer also records at 44Khz, would it be really worth going for another audio interface for voice. Does it really give an exceptionally good sound output with the pre-amps in AIs as compared to the mixer? Focusrite I can still imagine, as its 96 Khz, but is it always 96 Khz it records?

The other option for me is to get a better condesor microphone instead of another AI to improve the vocals. Can you advise on this please?

 

[jimmy3]

I finally am going to purchase the Focusrite Scarlet 2i4. And a better microphone as well (Rodes perhaps). Anyone hass any idea about the CM25 microphone they supply with the Scarlet Studio? Hasnt seen it being sold separately!