Selling rights to my songs

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Good Bob

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I played some of my demos for a guy who already has a record deal, and he liked them. He told me if he could secure the copyrights from me, he might use one of my songs on his next record.

Maybe this is too basic a question, but what do I need to know about doing something like that? I have the songs registered with the copyright office.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
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Never, ever, never, never (did I say never?) sell your copyright. You want to license the use of your copyright, not sell it. If he really is signed with a label then the label mooks will know what to do. Might want to contact an entertainment attorney anyhow just to be on the safe side. Perfect example - the guys who wrote Macarina (hate that song) sold the rights for about $1200. They, and their kids, could have retired off the royalties earned. I think the current rate is 8.5 cents per copy but I'm not 100% sure. Get it in writing.

DD
 
DigitalDon said:
Never, ever, never, never (did I say never?) sell your copyright. You want to license the use of your copyright, not sell it. If he really is signed with a label then the label mooks will know what to do. Might want to contact an entertainment attorney anyhow just to be on the safe side. Perfect example - the guys who wrote Macarina (hate that song) sold the rights for about $1200. They, and their kids, could have retired off the royalties earned. I think the current rate is 8.5 cents per copy but I'm not 100% sure. Get it in writing.

DD
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Thanks...

This is really like a "foot in the door" situation for me, because I've never sold or licensed a copyright. I suspect if he had to pay me for the song(s), he'd just use someone else's songs, and I'd still have my rights, but nothing else. He definitely has a record deal--no doubt about that at all. The thing I'd be willing to trade for is the writing credit (a mistake?), which hopefully would better my chances of licensing songs to other artists in need of material.
 
Talk to an attorney...

If it were me, I would NEVER turn over the copyrights on any of my material... You can give him permission just to record/distribute/play your stuff. If he's wanting to use it, then he must feel there's something worth marketing... If he's right, he sells a buttload of CD's... You get your foot in the door (and make some $$$) Win/Win for all involved.

You can bet Kerry Livgren is thankful he kept the rights to 'Dust In The Wind' everytime he sees Will Farrell sing it on the big screen... :rolleyes:

Determine what you want out of this deal (long and short term) and then discuss your options with an attorney...

Just my .02

:)
 
And if he secures the copyrights from you, and doesn't use it, then what? You have lost the song forever, and have no right to market it to anyone else. Here's the scoop - copyright = ownership. License = rental. If you sell the copyright, you have sold ALL of your right, title and interest in and to the music. You no longer have any right whatsoever to do anything with that music ever again. If you give him a license, then he has the right to do whatever it is that you agree to let him do in the license. There are a lot of things that go into this, but be very carefull about being screwed out of everything. It may be a foot in the door. But it also may be your first experience getting ripped off in the music biz. Don't do anything without talking to an entertainment lawyer first.
 
Thank you. When/if things move forward, I'll be sure to see an attorney before I do anything.
 
An artist ain't better than his best songs. If he has a record deal, his goal is to get as good melodies/songs onto his next album as possible. If he really thinks your song is great, he will be willing to put it onto his next album whoever has the copyright to it.
Here in Norway it's this simple:
As a songwriter, I register all my finished songs in TONO. TONO has eqivalents in most every country on the globe, and their job is to collect royalties from around the world (radio/TV play) and transfer it back to my bank account. Registering with TONO is (allmost) free of charge. TONO isn't an organisation that protects my rights in case of a rip-off, but hey; in a courtroom it counts in anyway.
The best way to protect your production is to send it (CD) to yourself by snailmail, and then DON'T open the package. In an eventually rip-off trial it's often word against word, and you will sit on hard evidence, but the opposite won't.
On top of this I'm trying to get a deal with a music publishing house these days. This music publisher will - when contracted - push my compositions around the globe to managers, A&R's and artists looking to fill up their next album with great songs. This music publishing house will also check the money coming back in from TONO to see that everything is ok.
Such a deal with a publisher ain't free of charge, so expect them to get a percentage of your royalties. This is contracted and in Norway this is handled in the way that TONO sends one part to you and one part to the publisher.
Don't sell away your copyrights. Never!
BTW; would be great to hear the material he wan't to have on his CD. Can you post it somewhere? And don't fear it to be stolen. Posting it here is actually a good proof that it's yours, as noone has an older datestamp on that material in case they rip it off.
To show you my fearlessness, here is a sketch of the latest composition I'm working on. Made on my old PC; not reached my MAC yet :rolleyes:
Keep up the good work :cool:
 
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Think of setting up a seperate project name for seperate styles you do, and then always use the project name when you want to license anything away. That way
you can never end up with a bad deal that keeps you from producing/releasing
music all together.
 
Thank you all for your replys. I'm not really comfortable posting the songs just yet...I'll keep you posted if things develop, and maybe post the songs at a later date.
 
There's a story I heard that a guy in the UK wrote part of the song Angels by Robbie Williams, which was a MASSIVE hit here in the UK. He sold any claim to the copyright for a few grand, he needed the money at the time and at the time it wasn't a hit of course. I bet he now regrets it.

You see, once you've sold any claim to the copyright they don't even have to mention your name in connection with the work, your part in its creation is wiped out.

If you need the money, OK, but unless you're absolutely desperate for money NEVER sell your copyright rights to anyone. What you do is license your song to them, but they have to acknowledge you as the wiriter, or at least co-writer.
 
glynb said:
There's a story I heard that a guy in the UK wrote part of the song Angels by Robbie Williams, which was a MASSIVE hit here in the UK...
Click to expand...
I really think that must be an internet story. Angels was written by Guy Chambers. The lyrics was written by Robbie Williams.
Check out guychambers.com
Maybe someone was cowriting with chambers; I don't know. But haven't heard about it. And I mean - I really read all I can come by about Guy Chambers and his songwriting.
Anyway; someone that sells out their rights to a massive thing like that must either be tonedeaf, desperate, broke or all of the above :rolleyes:
 
i saw a documentary about it.

the writer (i've completely forgotten his name) met Robbie Williams in a pub, they went back to the writers house, after deciding to work together. The next morning they got up, went up in his attic and wrote Angels... he played a quick recording done with just a cassette player of the song, with Robbie Williams singing it :p

it was changed by other people later on, but a lot of the main sections were written then.

but he never made any money other than the few grand from the rights.

Andy
 
You are right. I found this by Googling
-------------------------------------------------
July 7th 2001
Fans flocked to Lansdowne Road in their thousands last night to catch a glimpse of Robbie Williams- but one Dubliner was missing- the composer who helped revive Robbie’s solo career. Ray Hefferman penned Angels, the song which has become Robbie’s anthem but the former Take That star has refused to acknowledge Ray as the original composer of the award-winning song. “I signed a contract with Robbie’s management to allow him to release the song under the agreement that I would be credited as the song’s author on the single and on the album,” Ray told the Evening Herald. “I kept up my side of the bargain which was to keep schtum but my name has never appeared on the album.” It was Christmas 1996 when Williams, on a drinking binge in Dublin, met the talented song-writer from Glasnevin. Ray befriended a desolate Robbie and invited him to stay at his home. After a late night session, Ray played Robbie a rough demo of Angels, the song that went on to save his flaggering career. “Angels is a deeply personal song and was inspired by the death of my son,” Ray explains. “I was living in Paris at the time and was ringing my mother to let her know. I told her ‘I won’t have a son, I’ll have an angel instead’”. Hefferman poured his feelings into the lyrics and melody and allowed Robbie to hear it. “When I played Angels for Robbie I had the chorus, melody and first verse written.” The following day, with Louis Walsh’s help, the pair organised a slot at SMS recording studios at Temple Bar and made an accoustic recording of the song. Later Robbie’s management recognised the songs potential and offered to buy Ray out. While he won’t specify the amount, Ray confirmed it was a 5 figure sum, under the £50,000 mark. “I was very happy with the money but that wasn’t why I allowed them to use it. I thought the acclaim I’d receive as the song’s composer would far out weigh the money. Every time the song breaks a record or wins an award, the press get on to his management company and their official line is that I’m some weirdo stalker who claims to have written the song.”
-------------------------------------------------
Source: http://www.geocities.com/orla_86/July01News.html
 
Yes, here's the article I read, puts a slightly different slant on the story though...

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=910&id=688412003

The point is, noone gives him any credit because he signed away his right to the copyright. Having said that, up to £50,000 (around $80,000) isn't bad, but in the second story it's only £10,000 (around $15,000).

Funny that the guy seems agrieved that noone credits him for the song, but what does he expect, he sold his copyright and any interest, so there's no obligation to credit him.

And the moral of the story is, don't sell your interest in the song you wrote or co-wrote, never, never, it's like selling your soul!
 
Monsoon said:
And if he secures the copyrights from you, and doesn't use it, then what? You have lost the song forever, and have no right to market it to anyone else. Here's the scoop - copyright = ownership. License = rental. If you sell the copyright, you have sold ALL of your right, title and interest in and to the music. You no longer have any right whatsoever to do anything with that music ever again. If you give him a license, then he has the right to do whatever it is that you agree to let him do in the license. There are a lot of things that go into this, but be very carefull about being screwed out of everything. It may be a foot in the door. But it also may be your first experience getting ripped off in the music biz. Don't do anything without talking to an entertainment lawyer first.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. And if you ever wanted to record your own songs you'd have to pay HIM for a mechanical license to record your own song. Don't do it. Check out the Harry Fox agency for mechanical licensing.

Back in the early 60's Willie sold, I think, Hello Walls for 50 bucks... it made millions...
 
glynb said:
Yes, here's the article I read, puts a slightly different slant on the story though...

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=910&id=688412003

And the moral of the story is, don't sell your interest in the song you wrote or co-wrote, never, never, it's like selling your soul!
Click to expand...

Well, don't say "never, never." It depends on the commercial and economic objective and the circumstance. Just make sure that if you do, you are doing it with your eyes open and fully understand the ramifications.
 
DigitalDon said:
Never, ever, never, never (did I say never?) sell your copyright. You want to license the use of your copyright, not sell it. If he really is signed with a label then the label mooks will know what to do. Might want to contact an entertainment attorney anyhow just to be on the safe side. Perfect example - the guys who wrote Macarina (hate that song) sold the rights for about $1200. They, and their kids, could have retired off the royalties earned. I think the current rate is 8.5 cents per copy but I'm not 100% sure. Get it in writing.

DD
Click to expand...

it was informative... thanks
 
Don't sell your rights. Just in principle. You wrote the song. It is and should remain yours. If the guy wants to record it that's cool. May he have success with it. But he did not write it and should not own it.
 
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