Seeking feedback on this mix

[bunt]

Hi Everyone,

This my first mix (ever) and I'm hoping y'all can give me some pointers, critique, feedback. It's all me, so I hacked it out as best I could.
It was recorded on a Tascam 788 and mixed under headphones because that's all I have

Just a goofy song I wrote... kind of a jazzy club tune .. maybe, sorta.
Title is: Ol' Tom Byrne
I would really appreciate your help & comments. Thanks very much

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1055522&content=music

 

[CIRO]

Probably a cut around 60hz will helps (not so sure...)

Hey, congrats, what a great peformance! Nice to see a song like this here

Ciro

 

[bunt]

CIRO!
Thanks for listening and thanks for the comment!

Do you mean I should just try cutting at 60Hz across the board? Sorry, I'm new to this but I think that's what you meant... like maybe it's muddy. I'll give it a go

 

[guitar zero]

I'm a fan. This is really good. Here's what I think would help it out.
1) Agree with low cut to get rid of some bass rumble
2) Everything is panned dead center. There's no width to the mix. Leave bass and vocals center, pan everything else out evenly over the sound stage.
3) Vocals too quiet in places, sitting behind the instruments. I'd bring it up a titch.
4) Reverb a little thick in places. Methinks less would be better, Too much reverb on vocals can really create sibilance problems. If you really want that much, use a filter on your reverb from around 7000 Hz to 10k ish.
5) Create some depth as well as width. Use some delays and creative reverb to move things back a little on stage. Try to make it sound like a band spread out on a stage. Not everyone playing is up front. Will make the mix more 3D.

Work with it and repost. This is good.

 

[bunt]

guitar zero!

Thanks so much for the advice! I think I understand most of it, but I might have to do a little research on using a filter on the reverb. I didn't even know I could do that. Until I can sort that out, I'll try cutting the reverb back on the vocal and bring it up a bit. In fact I'm going to try everything you suggested. It all makes sense. I'm not sure I know how to create the depth that's needed, but that's one of the things I'm really trying to learn about because there is no depth just like you said.

It's so excellent that you guys listen and help with this stuff. I got to a point where I was just scratching my head. Many thanks!

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Great Start

I'm digging the performance


I've just mixed something myself

the url is below

http://www.soundclick.com/bukskywokerus

What do you think

I think you should start your own thread.

@OP: This is cool stuff, man. Guitar Zero's just saying to EQ the highend off your reverb feed - (it sounds harsh and out of place) - To experiment - turn your reverb bus/track/whatever up pretty loud so you can really hear it and put a low-pass on it's output at around 4000 hz and just listen while rolling the frequency up slowly - it's a whole different effect with purely dark not-so-in-your-face reverb - one that I think would work very nicely in your mix. As soon as you hear any weird resonant sounds, stop and go back down a tad - just try it.

 

[jeffmaher]

Allow me to anticipate a clarification for bunt:

When you add verb to a track, send the verb signal to a seperate track. Y' can't do the filtering without hurting the EQ of the subject track if you put the verb in the same track. Right?? The drop boxes will give you the options. I'm figuring you're new, as I am; and I didn't discover the seperate track option until long after I'd started. I never understand the books until I've learned hands-on..trial and error.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Allow me to anticipate a clarification for bunt:

When you add verb to a track, send the verb signal to a seperate track. Y' can't do the filtering without hurting the EQ of the subject track if you put the verb in the same track. Right?? The drop boxes will give you the options. I'm figuring you're new, as I am; and I didn't discover the seperate track option until long after I'd started. I never understand the books until I've learned hands-on..trial and error.

Well, yea, if you insert a reverb on the track, and then EQ that same track, then naturally you're going to be EQ'ing the original track as well.

Bunt - I'd recommend setting your reverb up as a send, or if you can't EQ your sends, then insert it on a bus or a submix or a group channel or whatever they call an equivalent "useful destination" in 788-land. Then you can feed as much or as little signal from all your various tracks to it and EQ away without butchering your original tracks. This is a pretty basic and fundamental (although it may seem confusing at first) thing to wrap you're head around, regardless of platform. Definitely worth taking the time to figure out how to use sends/busses/whatever the platform supports in the way of "group processing".

 

[jeffmaher]

Definitely worth taking the time to figure out how to use sends/busses/whatever the platform supports in the way of "group processing".

How'd you figure it out?

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Good question, and honestly, I don't remember. I think it may be because it's such a common/fundamental thing that it's like asking "how'd you figure out that pushing the fader up makes the volume go louder" - you just... learn and that's that...or something. I assume I either saw somebody do it, just jumped in and tried it, or I read about it on a Google expedition at 4am.

I hope you find some of this stuff helpful, Bunt - I don't wanna derail your thread

 

[bunt]

I think you should start your own thread.

@OP: Guitar Zero's just saying to EQ the highend off your reverb feed - (it sounds harsh and out of place) - To experiment - turn your reverb bus/track/whatever up pretty loud so you can really hear it and put a low-pass on it's output at around 4000 hz and just listen while rolling the frequency up slowly - it's a whole different effect with purely dark not-so-in-your-face reverb - one that I think would work very nicely in your mix. As soon as you hear any weird resonant sounds, stop and go back down a tad - just try it.

I hope you find some of this stuff helpful, Bunt - I don't wanna derail your thread

TyphoidHippo! Oh yeah, this stuff is hugely helpful so no worries on derailing. In fact I think you just saved me a ton of time, not to mention your explanation was nice & simple thus morphing something that I was overcomplicating into something real do-able even for me. Thanks a ton, man.

 

[bunt]

Allow me to anticipate a clarification for bunt:

When you add verb to a track, send the verb signal to a seperate track. Y' can't do the filtering without hurting the EQ of the subject track if you put the verb in the same track. Right?? The drop boxes will give you the options. I'm figuring you're new, as I am; and I didn't discover the seperate track option until long after I'd started. I never understand the books until I've learned hands-on..trial and error.

Thanks jeffmaher! I appreciate your recognizing my 'deer in the headlights' response to the reverb issues I have. ... and yeah, I'm new, trying to figure it all out. Putting the tune in this clinic has been my best move so far! Everyone has given really sound advice, but moreover taking the time to explain the hows & whys. BTW, I also have to get my hands on and around these techniques... sort of translate stuff I've read into some form of practical knob tweaking

 

[bunt]

Bunt - I'd recommend setting your reverb up as a send, or if you can't EQ your sends, then insert it on a bus or a submix or a group channel or whatever they call an equivalent "useful destination" in 788-land. Then you can feed as much or as little signal from all your various tracks to it and EQ away without butchering your original tracks. This is a pretty basic and fundamental (although it may seem confusing at first) thing to wrap you're head around, regardless of platform. Definitely worth taking the time to figure out how to use sends/busses/whatever the platform supports in the way of "group processing".

I think I can set the reverb up as a send. I'm going to mess with it a bit tonight after work. Thanks for all the great instruction! You guys are awesome

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Listening to this mix, man... I don't hear anything wrong with it. The solo guitar sound fabulous... Vocals don't get covered up, but don't dominate either.. Drums sound fake, but they've got their own space, too.. Yeah... Sounds great, man.

Definitely worth taking the time to figure out how to use sends/busses/whatever the platform supports in the way of "group processing".

How'd you figure it out?

I know this question wasn't addressed to me, but I remember distinctly when this concept came upon me. It was explained in a forum I found while googling about general mixing techniques, and as soon as I figured out what they meant when they said "create a send", I was onto it like flies on flypaper and haven't looked back. FX-per-channel is a great way to mix.

I really don't want to hijack the thread, but since this is somewhat already a subject, and could be helpful to bunt, what is "sidechaining" ? I've been wondering that for quite sometime.

Thanks for posting the tune, Bunt. I'm gonna listen to it again now. Great jazzy easy-listening song.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I really don't want to hijack the thread, but since this is somewhat already a subject, and could be helpful to bunt, what is "sidechaining" ? I've been wondering that for quite sometime.

When signal goes into a dynamics processor it is split into two; one that is altered by the processing and sent to the output, and one that goes to the detector circuit to trigger the processing.

Side chain processing is when you alter the signal going to the detector circuit of a dynamics processor. If you want the dynamics to react more or less to different frequencies in the signal you can filter (eq) just the detected signal using the side chain. De-essing is done like this, where the offending frequency range of sibilants is boosted in the side chain of a compressor so it reacts more strongly to them. The output is not filtered, but the gain is reduced when sibilants are present.

You can also use the side chain for ducking. With background music routed normally through the compressor, feed another signal, like an announcer's voice, into the side chain. When the announcer speaks the compressor lowers the music, then turns it back up when the announcer stops speaking.

 

[TripleM]

Real good performances. Cool song. real good singer and guitar players.

Agree that the verb is heavy on some tracks. I also agree that the mix is a bit on the narrow side.

I'm getting some "static-y distortion" on the lead guitar in spots (e.g., :12, :39, 2:34). Quite a few other spots too.

I'd raise the lead vocal a db or two. You could probably compress it harder than what it is.

Mix seems to be missing a lot of high end. Could be the MP3 conversion, but it seems to be missing more highs than a typical MP3.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

I really don't want to hijack the thread, but since this is somewhat already a subject, and could be helpful to bunt, what is "sidechaining" ? I've been wondering that for quite sometime.

The most basic explanation for sidechaining is something like "using one signal to process another signal". You can either send the signal out to *something* and back in using a sidechain cable (like to EQ the signal that's processed without actually EQing the final result) or you can just use the output of a different signal altogether.

edit: Bouldersoundguy explained that better than I did, lol

When I used to do live sound I would sidechain the kick drum through the compressor on the bass channel so that everytime the kick drum was struck, the bass would sort of "duck" out. It made balancing kick and bass very easy, sort of automatic, even, for live purposes. I drew a little picture and I'm gonna try to attach it here... crossing my fingers

 

[bunt]

I really don't want to hijack the thread, but since this is somewhat already a subject, and could be helpful to bunt, what is "sidechaining" ? I've been wondering that for quite sometime.

Thanks for posting the tune, Bunt. I'm gonna listen to it again now. Great jazzy easy-listening song.

Thanks man! Nice of you to say...
No problem on the hijack... or maybe we'll call it a rental I'm taking a ton of notes off this thread

I'm getting some "static-y distortion" on the lead guitar in spots (e.g., :12, :39, 2:34). Quite a few other spots too.

I'd raise the lead vocal a db or two. You could probably compress it harder than what it is.

Mix seems to be missing a lot of high end. Could be the MP3 conversion, but it seems to be missing more highs than a typical MP3.

Thanks for listening TripleM & thanks for the positive words. Good observations too. I also heard the staticy distortion / whatever it is stuff. I've gotta figure that one out... it sounds kind of like a preamp is flaking out when I pick a string a little harder. Not sure.
On the MP3 thing... Maybe there's just not enough high end? Comments, anyone?

TyphoidHippo & bouldersoundguy - Thanks for the sidechain wisdom! Thot you both did a nice job of explaining.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

When signal goes into a dynamics processor it is split into two; one that is altered by the processing and sent to the output, and one that goes to the detector circuit to trigger the processing.

Side chain processing is when you alter the signal going to the detector circuit of a dynamics processor. If you want the dynamics to react more or less to different frequencies in the signal you can filter (eq) just the detected signal using the side chain. De-essing is done like this, where the offending frequency range of sibilants is boosted in the side chain of a compressor so it reacts more strongly to them. The output is not filtered, but the gain is reduced when sibilants are present.

You can also use the side chain for ducking. With background music routed normally through the compressor, feed another signal, like an announcer's voice, into the side chain. When the announcer speaks the compressor lowers the music, then turns it back up when the announcer stops speaking.

Right on, bro. Thank you! That makes perfect sense. So, basically (just to make sure I'm understanding it), and example explanation of side-chaining would be putting an effect through the "side-chain" so it would go through the side-chain, directly to the trigger point of a DSP, causing the DSP to be triggered by that feed, instead of the signal the DSP is processing.

Dang, that's so friggin' conceptual... almost made my brain explode. I hope ya followed it. Anyway.. Thanks for the examples (and the diagram, TyphoidHippo). I believe I understand what it is now.

Yet another notch up for something valuable this forum has taught me.

Getting more and more valuable to me with each thread.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

So, basically (just to make sure I'm understanding it), and example explanation of side-chaining would be putting an effect through the "side-chain" so it would go through the side-chain, directly to the trigger point of a DSP, causing the DSP to be triggered by that feed, instead of the signal the DSP is processing.

You got it. Another way to think of it is like.. Splitting signal A into signals B and C, then sending B to the input of a compressor, C to the input of an EQ, and sending the output of the EQ to the sidechain insert of the compressor, would be exactly the same thing as just sending the signal out and back in through the insert jack, just messier. The point is the signal that is sent *in* to the sidechain insert completely replaces the original signal as far as what the compressor is going to *react* to, while the original signal is then acted on by the compressor.

If the compressor had two inputs, one for "signal to act on" and one for "signal to react to", that would be basically the same thing, with the important difference that by making the "signal to react to" input an insert-point (inline with a split-off copy of the "signal to act on", which is what a sidechain insert is), you're saved the hassle of splitting that signal yourself. It's a pretty elegant design, in my opinion.