Seeking Advice

[SergeD]

Hi,

Create an orchestral piece with a sequencer and samples is very loooooooong and haaaaaaard.

I'd like to find a tool as a sketchpad where cells could be put and moved in bars on any track.
Those cells would be reusable midi patterns we store in a library.
You know a tool we could call something like OOC (object oriented composing)

So if in the morning a new song arise from anywhere we could create some cells, reuse cells from the library and fill the sketchpad in various combinations till the canvas is completed. The last step would be to save the piece in midi format and load this in the sequencer for subsequent refinement.

Am I silly or this "Cells" software is already on market ?

SergeD

 

[AlChuck]

ACID and other loop-based tools are like this, but with audio.

There are also many MIDI loops and snippets available. You can copy, cut and paste "clips" of any length in SONAR.

I imagine that you are thinking of a slightly different interface that involves some better way to organize and present the snippets. I think the main problem is that no one organization scheme works very well once you have thousands and thousands of these cells. A more generalized interface is better overall because one can make it work in many different ways.

 

[moskus]

I think the main problem is that no one organization scheme works very well once you have thousands and thousands of these cells. A more generalized interface is better overall because one can make it work in many different ways.

Sure...

But are you really composing? To me it's just like eJay products. You're just moving a bunch of samples around...

 

[SergeD]

Moskus, AlChuck

Imagine building your midi patterns form one song to other.
For a new composition you could retrieve your patterns in a library, create variations, build your sketchpad with all those variations. It would be fantastic.

Imagine a sketchpad like the interface of Battery from Native instruments which use something like cells.

In this sketchpad, each cell would represent a bar in the track. Each row, containing many cells, would be a track. With a double click in a cell the piano roll would show the pattern. You could modify the pattern and save it in the library. You could drag the cell in other tracks to check how it sound with other instruments.

You could also create blocks of cells and move it in the sketchpad.

SergeD

 

[AlChuck]

I have thought of that, in the context of using ACID, and it doesn't work for me. It's like moskus says, it's not really like composing... fun, and often inspiring, but when it comes down to it, I have to start writing from smaller cells than you're talking about.

 

[James Argo]

Create an orchestral piece with a sequencer and samples is very loooooooong and haaaaaaard.

Yes indeed, SergeD. You can do beat sequencing using loops and sample phrase, but it doesn't work on whole orchestral piece. Believe me, in the end I'd rather sequence every single notes with my piano roll than using loops for violin section. It's about personal emotion I put into the song, you know...


Jaymz

 

[SergeD]

I'd rather sequence every single notes with my piano roll than using loops for violin section. It's about personal emotion I put into the song, you know...


Jaymz

Hi James,

I guess it's all up upside down from my mouth. I don't want to loop patterns, I want to create many variations in many patterns for many instruments with my keyboard, like a sequencer, and then put all of this on a sketchpad and move patterns in many ways like lego parts.

I should say that I started composing on a Yamaha Qy70. although its a pain to work on this small gear the possibilities of experimenting musical variations is way over a sequencer.

but I understand also about emotions, so there would be a pattern option where we could keep emotions within

Guess what ? I sent this idea to Misters Yamaha, Cakewalk and Native.

Who knows?

SergeD

 

[moskus]

SergeD, have you tried something like "composing" with Acid, eJay or Magix MusicMaker? It's pretty limiting...


Or are you looking for something that's is like MIDI but only it isn't?

 

[SergeD]

moskus,

One thing remains, if you compose on your piano and manually put it on a partition sheet your not so far from linking blocks (or patterns) together.

Yesterday somebody linked me to this upcoming product Live 4 http://www.ableton.com/ . They explain wisely the concept of sketchpad (They even use the term "sketchpad"). And hopefully they will raise the bar for composition tools.

I do not have abilities to sitdown and compose right away on my keyboard. When a kernel melody is found after minutes or hours of drumming many possibilities may arise from this kernel. Variations and textures are almost infinite with all the orchestral instruments.

A nice software should allow us to get rid of the highways and explore new countries without the cost of spending hours moving data in 25 tracks or more. A nice software should allow us to widen our understanding of music quickly.

I understand your point and James's concern, you are totally right. Well, probably I should have talked about orchestration tools rather than composition because I really don't want to use a loops in softwares, I want to dribble my own created patterns in any manners before going to the real thing.

SergeD

 

[James Argo]

I have Ableton live vers. 1.5 which came with Delta 1010LT. Call me dumb, but I could never figure out how to make it work I uninstalled it a week after I tried tweaking it high and low. Hey, it was not my first time. I wasn't so lucky with Fruity Loops either. If only somebody can babysit me what should I do with those application... I hate to let good software sitting in the box...

SergeD, I understand your idea I think maybe someday someone will actualy invent the tools you mentioned. It's just out of my imagination on how it's gonna work. Nothing's impossible, pal. When it comes out, sure I will give the demo a try


Jaymz

 

[SergeD]

Good news for the Cakewalk users,

Cakewalk answered to my mail with this new product

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Kinetic/default.asp

Look promising. It's designed for disco people but has lot of flexibility.

Very affordable and seems to have many possibilities with midi.

My quest is over.

SergeD