Second track also records first track with delay!

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lorskimac

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Hi.
My husband and I are trying to set up simple (and cheap) home recording with our instruments and a computer.

So, (no laughing) we found emagic logic's hitkit and got it working with a drum machine, guitar bass and vocal. But after laying down lovely clear drums on the first track, all the subsequent tracks also record the first drum track with an annoying delay as well. This makes me have a sad face.

How can I stop tracks 2,3 etc. from recording track 1 as well. Is there some really obvious setting or button or something?

How can I prevent the delay? I can sort of synch. the tracks with the "delay" feature but this means the drums are in a sort of chorus effect which I don't want.

Ignorantly yours,
Lorskimac
 
Sad face rectification is tricky without knowing what your recording process is.

So . . . how does the audio travel from lips to PC? Are you using an interface or using the computer's inbuilt soundcard?

Are you monitoring previoulsy recorded tracks as you record new ones with headphones or speakers?

The delay could be caused by inherent latency of the soundcard. The track bleed could be caused by monitor spill, or by some signal routing problem.

If you described the elements of your recording system, a diagnosis is easier to make.
 
Hi.
My husband and I are trying to set up simple (and cheap) home recording with our instruments and a computer.

So, (no laughing) we found emagic logic's hitkit and got it working with a drum machine, guitar bass and vocal. But after laying down lovely clear drums on the first track, all the subsequent tracks also record the first drum track with an annoying delay as well.

it sounds like you have the tracks set for stereo.
 
if you're using the built in sound card, i've seen a problem before where the computer is set to record "what you hear".

This means you will be recording from line in, microphone in, and any sound that is being played.

the setting is in windows mixer, and if this applies to you, you need to change it to record from line in, or mic in.
 
I dont know if this helps...but maybe you can just erase the track on 2...I wouldnt try that unless there is an undo option in this software though becuse track 1 might go with it...but if things dont work out you can mute track two or just drag the fader all the way down depending on what your software allows you to do.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies. This already relieves my sad face.

gecko zzed - This is our set-up. Vista laptop, basic version of emagic logic and various instruments.
First we laid down a generic drum track with a digital guitar effects pedal plugged directly into the laptop's mike hole with a lead (note my technical language there). The track was recorded in a new file in emagic logic. I don't really know if that's going directly through the sound card or not.
The second track is guitar played through the same pedal plugged in the same way with the first track playing through the computers speakers to play along to.
When we play back both tracks together, the guitar is slightly behind the first drum track even though it was played correctly and the drum track is also recorded again slightly behind the drums on the first track. The result is drums with an echo and a sloppy guitar track.
We've actually tried this same set-up on three different computers with audacity instead of emagic logic and the result is basically the same so we are clearly idiots.

ez willis - how do I find out if the tracks are set for stereo and how do I change that? I had a look about and can't see a reference to stereo or mono.

Steenamaroo - What's windows mixer? If I go to the sound settings in my control panel the only thing I can see that might make a difference is the sample rate and bit depth etc. This is set to "2 channel, 16 bit, 44100 Hz" to match the setting in emagic logic. Is the 2 channel thing a stereo refence? There are no options to select 1 channel in the drop-down box.

darrin h2000 - If I mute track 2 we won't have any guitar!

My sad face is coming back... 3 computers, 2 software packages, nothing listenable. The sound quality on logic is infinitely better than with audacity. Perhaps this is my punishment for cheaping out.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies. This already relieves my sad face.

gecko zzed - This is our set-up. Vista laptop, basic version of emagic logic and various instruments.
First we laid down a generic drum track with a digital guitar effects pedal plugged directly into the laptop's mike hole with a lead (note my technical language there). The track was recorded in a new file in emagic logic. I don't really know if that's going directly through the sound card or not.
The second track is guitar played through the same pedal plugged in the same way with the first track playing through the computers speakers to play along to.
When we play back both tracks together, the guitar is slightly behind the first drum track even though it was played correctly and the drum track is also recorded again slightly behind the drums on the first track. The result is drums with an echo and a sloppy guitar track.
We've actually tried this same set-up on three different computers with audacity instead of emagic logic and the result is basically the same so we are clearly idiots.

ez willis - how do I find out if the tracks are set for stereo and how do I change that? I had a look about and can't see a reference to stereo or mono.

Steenamaroo - What's windows mixer? If I go to the sound settings in my control panel the only thing I can see that might make a difference is the sample rate and bit depth etc. This is set to "2 channel, 16 bit, 44100 Hz" to match the setting in emagic logic. Is the 2 channel thing a stereo refence? There are no options to select 1 channel in the drop-down box.

darrin h2000 - If I mute track 2 we won't have any guitar!

My sad face is coming back... 3 computers, 2 software packages, nothing listenable. The sound quality on logic is infinitely better than with audacity. Perhaps this is my punishment for cheaping out.

Sad face revisited, huh?

Okay . . . there are many things to deal with here. If you are plugging directly into the laptop's mike hole (I am also familiar with technological language), then this means that you are using the laptop's inbuilt soundcard. This is likely to be the source of most, if not all, of your recording woes. Most internal cards, though you can use them for recording, are not designed for the sort of recording you are trying to do. If you are keen on pursuing this recording idea, then you should consider investing in a recording interface designed specifically for this purpose. Their are relatively cheap USB interfaces on the makret which will suit your purposes. You will be able to plug instruments or mikes into them. Logic will recognise the USB connection, and you won't experience the delay, and you can avoid the crosstalk (i.e. sound going from one track to the next).

I expect that the three different computers you've tried all have internal soundcards and are all displaying similar problems.

It's possible that tracks being set for stereo might be a problem. But I don't think that's the case in this instance. When you are in Logic, at the bottom of a track on the mixer window, next to the 'Rec' button is either a circle (mono) or two interlocking circles (stereo). You can toggle from one to the other. Above the track fader there is an input button from which you can select the input. I don't know whether the mike hole is built for a stereo or mono input, but Logic tracks default to left (or 1) then right (2). I really don't think this is causing you your problems though.

You should investigate the windows mixer referred to by Steenamaroo. I'm on XP, so I don't know how this works in Vista. However, somewhere you should be able to find a Control Panel, then Sounds and Audio Devices, then an Audio section. Within this, you should be able to pick your default recording device. Here is where you need to make sure that only the mike input has been selected. It is possible that the laptop is recording whatever it 'hears', from no matter what source (including itself, somehow).

Darrin h2000's suggestion of muting a track has merit, if to do nothing else than confirm that you can get a crosstalk free track. For example, you have your already-recorded drum track. Try muting that, and play guitar (at this stage we don't care if it's in time or not), and see if this results in a guitar without any unwanted rubbish on it.

You should also try recording the guitar without using the laptop's speakers, but using a set of headphones instead (so long as you can feed what you are recording into them as well as what the laptop is playing back for you). Again, this probably requires an exploration of the audio options in the control panel.
 
You mentioned you are using Audacity. This is a little trick I found (I was having a very similar problem) for getting around it. You need to use powered monitors. If you use powered monitors you can lower the playback volume in Audacity, for some reason unknown to me this has a hugh affect on the latency during playback/add track. I'm not saying this will work for everyone but it did work for me. A second thing to consider is, when using monitors (rather than headphones) for recording additional tracks, the mic may be picking up the previously recorded track(s) while you are recording a new one. Depending on your processing speed and your soundcard's ability to record and playback at the same time (many stock soundcards simply wont handle both functions similtaniously) your mic could be picking up a delayed signal.
 
Wow. This might be it. Now gecko zzed, do you mean cheap as in this -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-SOUND-CAR...l_RL?hash=item1c0c4cb442&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

or this -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALESIS-iO-2-U...l_RL?hash=item3eefc4ad11&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 ?

I get where you're coming from and it sounds like I need one of these things. If I mention that I play a Westfield bass and my husband plays a broken Epiphone and the mike stand is home made and mainly consists of parcel tape even though we've been in bands for nearly 20 years, does that inform you of our utter crapness? Apart from the laptop, will the usb interface be our most expensive piece of equipment?

I checked logic and all tracks are recorded in mono, so your excellent instincts are right. Checked sound settings in windows too - mic is set as only input. Yep, darrin h2000's advice is good but we already tried muting drums and putting guitar down, which results in a lovely guitar track that bears no relation to drum track. We've spent several Fridays doing this instead of sensible stuff like doing work to earn money etc. I totally understand the headphone thing (we've made loads of recordings in real studios with nice men who know what they're doing) and you would die of laughter or possibly disgust if you saw what we're using as headphones.

Dear Dani Pace, thanks for your advice on audacity, but we're probably going to use logic because the difference in sound quality is huge. This is no criticism of audacity but of our own idiocy. We haven't used the mic at all yet, just struggling to get guitars and bass at the minute.

I look forward to receiving the Home Recording Award for Most Clueless and Pathetic Newbie. I have just the dress for the ceremony...
 
Cheap as in second one. First one would probably be worse than the current inbuilt sound :)

Well, you could get away with something a bit cheaper than the Alesis. Maybe a M-Audio Fast Track USB? That would only set you back about £60.
 
Sorry darrin h2000. That's my fault for supplying a cack explanation. Track 2 was only supposed to be a rhythm guitar track, but on playback had also re-recorded the first track of drums. I appreciate your help and advice.

Mattr - I shall dust off the piggy bank and get saving. We just need something basic but I don't want to cheap out too much. If we could just get a true representation of the sound we're putting in onto the computer, that would be enough.
 

The second example is what you should shoot for. The first is really a toy, and won't keep you happy (it's not that sort of toy).

If you get something like the second, make sure you monitor from it and not from the computer.

I get where you're coming from and it sounds like I need one of these things. If I mention that I play a Westfield bass and my husband plays a broken Epiphone and the mike stand is home made and mainly consists of parcel tape even though we've been in bands for nearly 20 years, does that inform you of our utter crapness? Apart from the laptop, will the usb interface be our most expensive piece of equipment?

My first mike stand was a broom handle taped to the arm of a chair.

The USB could very well be your most expensive piece of equipment.

I look forward to receiving the Home Recording Award for Most Clueless and Pathetic Newbie. I have just the dress for the ceremony...

Hereby awarded . . . but only because I want to see the dress!
 
Wow Emagic Hit kit!!

Quite frankly it's something of a miracle that something written for windows 98 by a company that ceased to exist (purchased by apple) in 2002 is running on a Vista laptop at all. Hows that for backwards compatability as of next month that will be 5 generations of operating systems ago.

I did find an online manual for it here though which might help you out

http://www.dorlingkindersley-uk.co.uk/static/cs/uk/11/features/hitkit/manual.html#chap01
 
Wow Emagic Hit kit!!

Quite frankly it's something of a miracle that something written for windows 98 by a company that ceased to exist (purchased by apple) in 2002 is running on a Vista laptop at all. Hows that for backwards compatability as of next month that will be 5 generations of operating systems ago.

I'm still running Logic 5.1 on XP!
 
Wow. What did idiots do before online forums? Oh yeah, they just died of shame in music shops. We have never been good with the technical stuff (although one would imagine you would pick it up as you go along - not us!) I have to set up our drummer's double kick because he claims he doesn't know how and if you ask me what that wee box on top of my bass amp does at gigs, I would probably cry - like a girl.

gecko zzed - I shall get me one of those usb things and try and choose a good one too. If logic is good enough for you ( I've decided you and the generous and patient folk at Home Recording are my new heroes whether you agree to it or not - If I have to resort to stalking I will) then it's good enough for me. Oh, and don't hold your breath for the dress. Better to have a dream than harsh reality!

Bristol posse - Yes, I realize "hit kit" is a bit of an embarrassment, but I don't think we need anything fancy. I totally agree about vista and all, but hubbie is a web designer so we have to have latest op. sys. Thanks for the manual link but I already trailed through it and apart from some "quantizing " stuff it didn't throw up any remedies. Couldn't get the quantizing to work but in audacity we found that we could drag track 2 into synch with the first track which was good. I just want it to record properly the first time!

I realize, of course, that even if I get the nice usb holy grail thing that there might be other problems but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
 
If logic is good enough for you ( I've decided you and the generous and patient folk at Home Recording are my new heroes whether you agree to it or not - If I have to resort to stalking I will) then it's good enough for me.

Your version of Logic, seeing as it seems to work in Vista ok, should do you for a while. Depending on how things work out, you might later consider moving to another program. For example, for all my fondness for Logic, I think that Reaper is the bee's knees at the moment.

Oh, and don't hold your breath for the dress. Better to have a dream than harsh reality!

I can cope with dreaming

I realize, of course, that even if I get the nice usb holy grail thing that there might be other problems but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Undoubtedly you will experience problems . . . it's a law of nature. Just don't give up. I remember when I first installed Logic in 1997, it was about two months before I could record anything satisfactorily!
 
it could be your latency settings thats making it feel as though it has a delay from the strike of a string or vocal line to the sound that comes out of the speakers.
 
Now rebirth, don't give me a sad face with words like "latency". If you mean the buffer setting, anything below 6000 (6000 what? who knows?) sounds like evil. I take it this is just another manifestation of the shit sound card, hence the need for a usb thingy? I just don't know. Thanks for your suggestion.
 
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