sampled horns

[fraserhutch]

You win.

.

I play bagpipes. That pretty much trumps any
self perceived suckage on any other instrument.

When I start feeling sucky about the pipes,
I revert back to accordian.


Lumpy

You Played on Lawrence Welk?
Yes but no blue notes. Just blue hairs.

www.LumpyMusic.com

 

[fraserhutch]

Nice job, you did a really good job of staying in the idiom.
That said, they didn't fool me for a second, but I'm a horn player....

I did really like the song though. We should talk about my doing the horn parts for you.

Thanks dudes!

I think the key (pun intended) to sampled horns is in the playing style. I'm not a horn player, but I kept listening to them as I played and trying to imagine a horn player, rather than do the typical keyboard players' shtick of playing block chords, wondering why they don't sound like a horn section.

And just to reiterate, those were done on a punkass, 80s piece of crap Roland ROMpler (although I believe Roland gear to be pretty awesome regardless). You can buy 'em on eBay for less than a hundred bucks.

 

[stupidfatnugly]

We should talk about my doing the horn parts for you.

you can do my horn parts too. what do you play?

 

[Todzilla]

Nice job, you did a really good job of staying in the idiom.
That said, they didn't fool me for a second, but I'm a horn player....

I did really like the song though. We should talk about my doing the horn parts for you.

I'm intrigued, although that song was on an old Reel-to-Reel format that is no longer viable and must remain, permanently as a mix-down only. And for the record, it wasn't my intention to make those horns indistinguishable from the real thing, just to make them plausible.

Here's my only song with real horns:

 

[SonicAlbert]

I did it and I think it sounds pretty good.

please have a listen and tell me what you think of the horns

http://myspace.com/stupidfatandugly

song: "care"

just listen to the first minute or so of the song.
the rest still needs alot of work

Yeah, they sound pretty fake. Part of the issue is that they are the melody instrument and are very exposed in a light arrangement. If they were buried behind a busier arrangement or under an actual acoustic lead instrument or vocal, they would sound better.

But I do think you should look for better sounds.

Making sampled instrument tracks sound good is an art that takes quite a while to master, so don't beat yourself up too hard.

There are several factors that need to come together for it work out:

1. Good Sounds

2. Those sounds played in a realistic way. This requires listening to the real instrument *a lot*, so that you can imitate it accurately.

3. The arrangements have to be what a real horn section would be playing. This is very important.

4. The sampled horns have to be played in the actual range of the real instrument. If you play a sampled horn out of the range of the real horn, it very obviously becomes a fake.

5. Record each horn part individually. So in other words, don't play "keyboard horns" where you play chords or octaves. Record each voice of the horn parts separately. This will sound much more realistic and also force you to be very aware of what your horn arrangement is.

6. Mixed well so that they blend in with the other parts and any "fakeness" in their tone is minimized. Sometimes there is a certain frequency in a sample that is not representative of the real thing and if you eq it out the instrument sounds more realistic.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[stupidfatnugly]

that is helpful

I'm going to get rid of the "horns" part

thanks

 

[Todzilla]

Good list, Albert!

To stress your points, I would put your first item as less important than the other 5.

Yeah, they sound pretty fake. Part of the issue is that they are the melody instrument and are very exposed in a light arrangement. If they were buried behind a busier arrangement or under an actual acoustic lead instrument or vocal, they would sound better.

But I do think you should look for better sounds.

Making sampled instrument tracks sound good is an art that takes quite a while to master, so don't beat yourself up too hard.

There are several factors that need to come together for it work out:

1. Good Sounds

2. Those sounds played in a realistic way. This requires listening to the real instrument *a lot*, so that you can imitate it accurately.

3. The arrangements have to be what a real horn section would be playing. This is very important.

4. The sampled horns have to be played in the actual range of the real instrument. If you play a sampled horn out of the range of the real horn, it very obviously becomes a fake.

5. Record each horn part individually. So in other words, don't play "keyboard horns" where you play chords or octaves. Record each voice of the horn parts separately. This will sound much more realistic and also force you to be very aware of what your horn arrangement is.

6. Mixed well so that they blend in with the other parts and any "fakeness" in their tone is minimized. Sometimes there is a certain frequency in a sample that is not representative of the real thing and if you eq it out the instrument sounds more realistic.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Good list, Albert!

To stress your points, I would put your first item as less important than the other 5.

Yeah, I didn't intend the list as order of importance. I wouldn't say that good sounds are more important than any of the rest, as you pointed out, but I wouldn't say good sounds are less important either. In my view they are all equally important.

If you've gone to all the trouble to actually do everything in points 2-6 (which is a lot of work), then why would you waste that effort on inferior sounds? I do think it all works hand in hand.

I agree in the sense that good sounds can sound bad if the arrangements are wrong, and bad sounds can sound better than they are if treated properly. But good arrangements with killer sounds is really the way to go!

 

[GuitarsFromMars]

Ok,to the OP:here's what I do-
I use a Korg T3...I will say that nominally,over HALF of the stuff cut in the 80-early 90's was done on this or an M1...everything else was a Roland,or suff along the lines of a real B3,Prophet,or Mellotron.

Horns sound best when they are correctly arranged for the song.That being said,you have to listen to and learn from other songs that have horns(Phil Collins,Chicago,TOP,Ides of March,Gary Puckett,Steely Dan,but to name a few),then repeatedly make mistakes(learning what to do is all about repeatedly making errors,then doing it until you get it right).EQ plays a huge role in this and will make the horns fit or not,depending on your skill level and good taste used.And it takes years.There is no formula for good to excellent horn parts anymore than there is any other instrument.Suck it up,junior...