Same old question about "getting started"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vigilante
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Vigilante

Gear nut
Hey all, first post here. I hope to sqeeze and pummel lots of info from you guys. As I was told in multiple places, this is the forum to go to.

Alrighty then, let me be quick and to the point.

1) I have a laptop, quick enough for recording and editing, I think. Nuff said.

2) I want a semi-portable setup to record onto the laptop. In other words, limit to just one piece of equipment if I can. Minus mics, cables etc...

3) I want almost ALL editing done on PC side. So my "device" doesn't really need effects and EQ and what-not.

4) The laptop doesn't have Firewire or USB2.0, but USB1.0. And a subpar audio or course. Although F/W and USB2 can be added if needed.

5) So I'm looking for a way to get as good a recording from mic to PC as I possibly can, on a budget of course. And I know I want XLR balanced inputs. At least 2 inputs. At the most I may have 2 voice 2 instrument at once.

6) I'll be recording accoustic, no keyboards and such, no midi at first. It'll be piano, vocals. Likely stringed instruments as well. And on my budget, I'll need a multi-purpose mic for recording things one track at a time into the PC and mixing there. So the mic will have to handle both voice and instrument pretty well.

7) Here is 2 products I picked out, based on some light research:

The device: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--MDOMOBILEPRE

The mic: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--SHUPG58

The stand: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--QLKA206BLK

Will these work together, to record piano/voice/guitar, with CD quality, into my PC for processing?

At my most basic of needs, from what I read, I just need a mic preamp line out into my laptop's line in. But I don't want the sound card in the laptop being used. So I'm guessing I need a USB or firewire device. Unless you think a line-in from a laptop sound card would be perfectly fine.
Limiting myself to what I have, USB1, the MobilePre gets the best reviews and seems the best choice for my simple needs. With the most feature to price ratio. And the name is good I hear.
I just want to get good sounds, into my computer. And not spend an arm and a leg to do it. Cause it'll be hobby until the "bug" kicks in.

Will these items suit my needs? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? Should I go more for hardware based mixing and effects, or can I work with software tools just as well? Should I skip the PC and try to get an 8 track? Then output to PC when done? Though way more expensive I know.

This may be related to software, but I want to do loops as well. I want to quickly record something, set it to loop, then listen as I continue to record the next loop (track?), then listen to both and keep recording. And on and on with no apparent limit on tracks.

Any help for a noob? thx
 
Vigilante said:
7) Here is 2 products I picked out, based on some light research:

The device: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--MDOMOBILEPRE

The mic: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--SHUPG58

The stand: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--QLKA206BLK

Will these work together, to record piano/voice/guitar, with CD quality, into my PC for processing?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by CD quality? If you are expecting results comparable to professionally recorded and mastered CD's, then, no, these won't cut it. If you just want to get sounds into the computer and mess around with them, then, yes, these will work. It really boils down to your expectations and future goals.

Here are my suggestions for getting started in computer recording:

For starters, I would ditch the PG58. At the bare minimum, get an SM57 or SM58. The PG series mics are not good for much and would sorely disappoint you on piano. Even better would be getting a condenser microphone, which will sound better for most studio applications. The Studio Projects B1 is a fairly versatile first condenser mic, as is the MXL V67g.

The MobilePre is fine, from what I've heard. I own the Tascam US-122, which is a fairly similar unit, and am happy with it's performance. The advantages of the Tascam, compared to the MobilPre are, 1) 24-bit audio vs. 16-bit; and 2) The Tascam comes with Cubase LE, which is a solid beginning audio recording program (limited to 48 tracks). I'm not sure what software comes with the MobilePre.

You'll also need to think about things like Monitors (speakers) for listening to and mixing your music. Computer speakers will work in a pinch, but generally don't have the detail to make good decisions while mixing. Here's a good article on what you'll need for computer-based recording:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1818497,00.asp
 
Second opinion

Scrubs has got you off to a great start, I concur with everything he said (especially the endorsement of the 122.)

Doublecheck to make sure whatever interface you do buy will be comfortable with USB 1.1. You might have to upgrade that to 2.0, especially if you wind up with one with more than two channels in.

G.
 
I'd say get the upgrade to USB 2.0 and get one of those external soundcards. Something like the Mbox is designed for people such as yourself. And definately ditch the PG58. Scrubs' advice and go with some sort of condenser instead. My father used a small diaphram condenser for piano, not sure how well it worked though. Your best bet would be a decent large diaphram condenser, like the B1. I've heard some pretty good stuff from an MXL990 (available at musiciansfriend.com), but most people tend to prefer the B1 over it.

Do you have any software already? This is going to have to fit into your budget as well (soundcards usually only come with trial software).

People are going to hate me for saying this, but if studio monitors aren't in your budget, or you don't like the lack of portability of monitors, then you're going to want some good headphones. Sennheiser and AKG are the brands to look at for good quality studio headphones. Do note that headphones screw with your sound when you mix (or master, if you ever plan on it), so you're going to want to listen to your mix on several different stereos, paying attention to the frequency balance (are the lows too boomy, the highs too shrilly, etc.).
 
IronFlippy said:
Do you have any software already? This is going to have to fit into your budget as well (soundcards usually only come with trial software).
Click to expand...
Just to avoid confusion, the Tascam does come with a full working version of CubaseLE - as many such interfaces do - which should be fine to get him going. But you're right, that is something that he needs to doublecheck on when shopping.

IronFlippy said:
People are going to hate me for saying this, but if studio monitors aren't in your budget, or you don't like the lack of portability of monitors, then you're going to want some good headphones. Sennheiser and AKG are the brands to look at for good quality studio headphones. Do note that headphones screw with your sound when you mix (or master, if you ever plan on it), so you're going to want to listen to your mix on several different stereos, paying attention to the frequency balance (are the lows too boomy, the highs too shrilly, etc.).
Click to expand...
Eliminate the middleman and do the mixing using a pair of the stereo speakers, if you got 'em. If you have a halfway decent pair of stereo speakers to check your mixes on, then use them to mix. Oh, they may not be the quality of higher-end monitors, but they can be at least as good, if not better, than low-end or entry level "studio monitors" - I'll take my pair of Klipsch kg.5 consumer bookshelves (that I use for consumer playback testing) over a pair of mAudio BX5s hands down any day - and they'll certainly be better than using headphones.

G.
 
Excellent advice guys. Here is some more background.

No I don't want production recording to make retails or any such thing. By CD quality I just mean I don't want it to sound like I'm in a tin can, or sound far away, or have a whir or hiss in the background of every recording. I don't want it to sound like I'm playing through a telephone and someone is recording on the other side. I don't need it to sound like the best, but I don't want low quality either.
I'm not recording rock or club music. So distortion is not a good quality. I am hoping for clear and crisp accoustic.

As for the parts. If there is one thing I will just have to do without, is an expensive mic. Only to start out with. I don't think I could pay over $50 for a mic right now. Especially if I opt for <> $200 interface. Matter of fact I probably won't be getting a mic right away. But will either borrow one from my dad, who did pro music gigs, or fart around with a cheapo 1/4" dynamic that I have already.

As for getting a condenser, I agree. And if absolutely necessary, I may plunk down $60ish for one. Here is a small listing of condensers on zzounds, any good:

Samson C01: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--SAMCO1
CAD GXL2200: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--CADGXL2200
Nady SCM900: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--NDYSCM900
Marshall MXL V57M: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--MSEV57M
CAD GXL1200: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--GLOGXL1200

I really can't go any higher then this. I'd have to save for a while. If not these, then what about a similar priced good dynamic better than the PG58?
---------

When pitting the Tascam agains the MobilePre, what is the feature that I'd be kicking myself over to not have spent the extra $50 to get? Granted, I will probably start doing midi some day, but not huge digital piano. Just maybe a simple 61key controller for creating loops and so forth. I wouldn't mix my live with midi I don't think. I'd like to do live stuff, and then also do midi-only stuff.

I've thought about going the Sound Card way. A friend of mine has the Audigy Platinum Ex. Which has PCI card, daughter card, breakout box, decent software. And he does a lot of recording to it and is happy with it. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...2&prev=/images?q=Audigy+Ex&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=)http://images.google.com/imgres?img...2&prev=/images?q=Audigy+Ex&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=

If I were to say I want audio quality like this could give, would I blow this out of the water with the MobilePre or US-122, and a $60 condenser?

2nd reason about sound cards is that I want this to be portable. So I want all connections to be to laptop for recording. And small enough to drag around sometimes. So an external USB soundcard I'm not opposed to, but I think the M-Audio or Tascam or similar, would be better. Any thoughts?

If I said I wanted decent audio into my PC for less than $250, am I dreaming? This not including software costs, just parts.

As for the software, don't worry about that just yet. I have a lot of musician friends with hookups if you know what I mean. So I'll be able to try out a variety of products until I find one I like. I want easy looping, many tracks, midi recording, all standard effects, and easy to use. I can get Sonic Foundy software, Acid, and more. But I'll also ask, any good freeware out there? I mean, how would a recording sound into Audacity or similar product? And what other software would you recommend looking in to?
----------------

Okay, what else? Oh, because I'm using the laptop, I'm first looking into USB1 stuff. I'm not opposed to going USB2 or Firewire, but I'd also have to buy a PC-Card for the laptop to use it. Thus more expense. The Tascam looks good, and doesn't say it's USB2, just says USB. So I assume it'll work on mine.
That also is a no on internal PCI hardware of course.

My last comments on the monitors. Well that will all have to wait, unfortunately. Even just for a good pair of headphones. Right now I just want good sound going IN. I'll worry about good sound coming OUT later. But that does raise another question. Because I'm going through USB into a PC for editing; when I then play the mix, does the sound card also play a big role? That is, I have good equip for recording, and good equip to hear it. But the so-so soundcard in the middle, is that gunna be an issue?
The best sound card I have right now is a Sound Blaster Audigy SB0090 which I'm not using. So being that I would be outputting to the monitor through 1/8" stereo, what should I be thinking about?

You've helped a lot, keep em coming!
 
First off, Vigilante, let me say that I understand and sympathize with the budget situation. I will say that it is extremely tough to get even your definition of "CD quality" for two hundred bucks or so; that's cutting it real thin. Especially when you consider that you'll still ned a mic stand for the mic, at least one mic cable, a spool of blank CD-Rs to burn to, etc. The small stuff add up too, unfortunately. :(

But I understand that you don;t want to spend a lot of bucks. That's fine. We'll keep it that way as best as possible. All I ask is that you keep in mund that when money is that tight, that every dollar of investment is that much more importantto get right. $50 may not be a lot for a full-blown studio, but it's a full 1/4th of your budget, so you don't want to blow it on something you won't be happy with either.

With that in mind, I strongly recommend you skip the Audigy. There is a HUGE difference in quality betwwen a gamers soundcard and an audio recording interface like the mAusio or the Tascam. As far as the $50 difference between the mAudio and the Tascam, that's a tough call on your budget. In my personal opinion, the Tascam is a superior unit in both sound quality and quality of construction, and if you could afford the difference, I feel it's worth it myself. Plus, the Tascam comes with a very nice multitrack recording and mixing software app in CubaseLE (which would normally cost $99 if you bought it seperately.)

However on your budget, perhaps it might be better to save the fifty bucks and apply towards the microphone or something else instead and go with the less expensive mAudio. It will still be much better than the Audigy. And, yes, Audacity is a nice free entry-level app that should serve you fine for a while. Both the Tascam and the mAudio are entirely portable, BTW. Both units are pretty small and get their power straight from the USB bus.

(FYI: this is the wrong forum to talk about cracked or pirated software. The use of such is heavily beat down upon here. You'll do whatever you do, but if you go that way, don't let the folks here - including me - know about it. Besides, while Sound Forge is very nice - I have it myself - it is only for mono or stereo files; you won't be able to do multitrack mixing with it. And Acid is really designed for creating loops.)

As far as microphones go, I'd recommend seeing what your dad can come up with for you to borrow. Above and beyond that, perhaps use your money to rent some quality microphones (you can rent them for only a couple of bucks a day) until you can afford to buy something at least fairly decent or get something from Santy Claus ;). Your recordings are only going to be as good as your microphones.

Finally - and again I understand your monitary situation - you'll need to hear whether or not your getting a good recording going in, and you won't be able to do that with tin can monitors. If you can't afford something now, that's understandable, but you need to understand also that the quality of your recordings will be limited by your monitors; if you can't hear problems, you won't know you have them. If your monitors are not much better than a telephone, you won't know if your recordings are either ;). So do whatever the best you can do in that regard until you can afford to do better, because it is important as well.

G.
 
Hey, I just found the Pro Tools Mbox on sale at Guitar Center and Musicians friend for $299.00. That is the cheapest price ever on the original Mbox.
 
If you absolutely must get a super cheap condenser, I would recommend the MXL 990 over the ones you've listed. Musician's Friend usually has it for $59.99, though it looks like it is currently $69.99 on their site: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/s=mics/search/detail/base_pid/273156/

Check e-bay to see if you can get it cheaper.

I have two of them and they work decently for guitar and vocal recording, imo.

The best option, though, is to wait until you can afford something a little nicer (even the $100 MXL V67 or SP B1 would be an upgrade).
 
I didn't figure I could buy much for $250.
Buget-wise, I'm asking can I just get a mic and interface, and that's IT. I have all the PC stuff already, as I've done music before on PC, but not recording. Such as MIDI and some sampling and mixing of already-made music.
A $200 interface with a $50-$60 mic I'm not opposed to. And some of those mics, like a couple Behringer's and Shure's, already come with a full XLR to XLR cable, which helps. Even a pop shield, or whatever their called.

I don't have high expectations guys. We're comparing a $60 Shure dynamic mic to a $10 PC mic or $20 Radio Shack special. I highly doubt I'd be dissapointed with sound quality. Or compare the Radio Shack to the $60-$70 condenser, tell me I wouldn't be happy with it. Maybe your honed ears could tell, but I'd probably have a blast.
So say I really HAD to buy $50ish mic, what would be my choice? Not really talking sound quality anymore, cause I hear you about that, but more with name brand and longetivity. i.e. reliability. A good work horse.

I think I will spring for the Tascam, cause I'm torn about the MIDI, and latency issues. So assume from now on that I have the Tascam, cause I'll probably get it this weekend. Also the software bundle is good, and in my opionion it looks a little less retro then the M-Audio.
Don't worry about software or cables or monitors or speakers. I think I just need to focus on the mic now. And a mic that comes with a cable and pop shield would be nice. With those extras I might go up to $60 or $70. I just can't imagine paying $100+ for a stinkin microphone! I've never paid more then $10 or $20 for a mic. So it's just a noob shock I guess. Maybe someday if I really want to put some complete stuff together.
But I want this just for hobby and fun. I doubt other people will even hear what I do until I get better at it. So I trust your suggestions.
And since my dad doesn't play gigs anymore, I can probably borrow his mic stand and monitors and such, which are all in storage anyway. He has loads of cables and mics. Not condenser, cause I know the shape of them now, but from my youth, his mics were shaped and colored like the SM58. That is, round, silver metal grate etc... But I don't know what they are offhand.

I've got 3 elements: PC, interface, and mic. 2 of those are done now, and all the little things I've got covered. So boys and girls, what are my mic options?

Lastly, if I choose a mic before buying the Tascam, I'd rather buy them both at once from the same store. So whatever is your favorite store, cause I don't know about audio stores, give links for them.
Zzounds gets good reviews, has free shipping on a lot, and can match prices. So I figured that was a good place to shop.

Thanks again. And when this is over, I'll post some work up here for your horror, I mean, listening pleasure.
 
Oh and one more thing. One of you mentioned renting a mic. So that begs the question, what do you think about buying a mic used? Is that tricky? Any special concerns? Can I "open" the mic or in other words clean it really well?
 
Hey again, I was just browsing around Ebay, which I didn't think of yet. And I can save about $30 on the Tascam if I go there, for sealed, new in box and warranty and everything. Which opens the budget some for a mike. So I was looking around for a condenser as well, and I can get the Behringer B1 for about $30 cheaper then zzounds as well. Which is sweet. But for the mic, it was used 1 time for testing, so I don't know about warranties.

But still, that's $300+ for zzounds versus $240 for ebay. For both interface and B1 condenser.
Plus that, for the two I was looking at, the Tascam authorized seller had a coupon to send in to Tascam to get a free mic and headphones. That's pretty cool. And the B1 came with hard case, shock mount, AND pop sheild.

Saving $60 sounds pretty good to me. Even if I do have to buy on ebay. This will allow me to perhaps even get a monitor soon. Or a stand and some high quality cables. But at least saves me from getting a less then perfect dynamic mic. Cause I'm sure the B1 is worlds better.

What do you think about this?

And lastly, where and what XLR cable should I get? Note, I read someplace that I should get locking XLR cable? What's that about?

Thanks, need to buy ebay items before they run out of course. Can't wait!!!!
 
Ua 25

Personally I would go for an Edirol UA 25. More recent design then the Tascam and from what I heard (read) better mic preamps.

Got to ad that no Cubase LE comes with it, and that there is a promising new unit from Alesis, the Alesis IO2 that comes bundled with Cubase LE.

Hugo

free guitar lessons@

http://www.pego.be

And I see now I have to edit my sig, it's outdated :-).
 
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