RWRP middle pickup question

[ashcat_lt]

Well I’m glad the fucking robots agree! If they’re wired with string sensing in phase, the string sensing is in phase. If they’re not, then not, and it doesn’t matter if it’s an HB or SC except when it comes to noise cancelling.

For string sensing, it’s 1 + (1 + 1). In practice doesn’t actually add up to 3, but that’s a different story. For noise, its 1 + (1 - 1) which also won’t actually add up to 1, but it will be more than 0.

 

[Papanate]

The out-of-phase sound you're hearing (the fourth phrase on my recording) is not involving the Little 59 at all. It's the middle/neck position, which are both single coils (the middle being RWRP).

Are you saying that the Little 59 could still be causing the issue somehow?

No if you wired your guitar like the picture- then the 4th postion is the middle and bridge pickup - if your 4 position is the neck and middle pickup you’ve wired the guitar wrong -and I have no idea whats going on.

 

[famous beagle]

No if you wired your guitar like the picture- then the 4th postion is the middle and bridge pickup - if your 4 position is the neck and middle pickup you’ve wired the guitar wrong -and I have no idea whats going on.

I wired my guitar exactly like the picture.

According to the chart posted above (in post #20):

position 1 = bridge only
position 2 = bridge/middle
position 3 = middle only
position 4 = neck/middle
position 5 = neck only

Are you calling position 4 bridge/middle? This is why I was avoiding switch number settings, because there doesn't seem to be consensus about this. See attached images. These both came up when searching "Strat pickup position 4." Two charts showing the exact opposite numbering system.

The drawing attached shows the switch position I'm talking about. It's when the neck and middle are selected. Depending on whom you ask, this is known as position 4 or 2. According to the chart in post #20, this is position 4.

 

[famous beagle]

Well no, BUT, IF the bridge and middle are in phase AND the neck and middle are not, it tends to indicate that it’s actually the neck pickup that’s the issue. Reversing middle might just fix position 4 and break position 2.

I don’t think you answered my question about hum, and I can’t listen to your upload right now. Does the hum get quieter in N+M compared to either of those pickups alone?

Sorry I didn't notice your question about the hum. I'll have to check that out. The guitar is shielded, so the hum is already much better than on a typical Strat, but I'll see if I can find out. I just listened to my demo with headphones, and I couldn't notice a difference, but I think it's because I wasn't leaving any space between the licks. I'll check it out tonight. Thanks!

 

[Papanate]

I wired my guitar exactly like the picture.

According to the chart posted above (in post #20):

position 1 = bridge only
position 2 = bridge/middle
position 3 = middle only
position 4 = neck/middle
position 5 = neck only

Are you calling position 4 bridge/middle? This is why I was avoiding switch number settings, because there doesn't seem to be consensus about this. See attached images. These both came up when searching "Strat pickup position 4." Two charts showing the exact opposite numbering system.

The drawing attached shows the switch position I'm talking about. It's when the neck and middle are selected. Depending on whom you ask, this is known as position 4 or 2. According to the chart in post #20, this is position 4.

Unless you have to special wiring then the first position is the switch forward all the way towards the Neck which I call Position ! - however you could call the bridge pickup position - switch all the way to the back towards the bridge Position 1 - In any case the Position 2 (bridge/middle) in. your diagram is the problematic ‘out of phase’ position - and I think it is because you have it wired traditionally so it conflicts with the Lil 59er Humbucker Pickup.

 

[famous beagle]

Unless you have to special wiring then the first position is the switch forward all the way towards the Neck which I call Position ! - however you could call the bridge pickup position - switch all the way to the back towards the bridge Position 1 - In any case the Position 2 (bridge/middle) in. your diagram is the problematic ‘out of phase’ position - and I think it is because you have it wired traditionally so it conflicts with the Lil 59er Humbucker Pickup.

No ... the bolded line above is not correct. I don't know how else to say this:

The position that has the issue is the neck/middle position - not the bridge/middle. The bridge/middle position - the second nearest the floor - sounds absolutely fine.

The neck/middle position - the second nearest the ceiling - is the one that sounds out of phase.

 

[ashcat_lt]

There is no standard for switch numbering. Bridge = 1 always made most sense to me, but I really just leave it in the middle so it doesn’t matter anyway.

 

[famous beagle]

There is no standard for switch numbering. Bridge = 1 always made most sense to me, but I really just leave it in the middle so it doesn’t matter anyway.

Interesting! I spend most of time in positions 1 and 5. 3 is my next favorite. I hardly ever use the in-between positions, which might seem a little odd, given this thread. But I was just curious as to what's going on here, as I've never run into this kind of thing before.

 

[Old Music Guy]

Are you calling position 4 bridge/middle?

Not the way I understand it. Position 4 would be middle/neck.
The way I use my switch, What ever pup the switch points to, it the active pup. If it's all the way back towards the bridge, it the bridge only (pos 1). If it's' pointed towards the neck it's the neck only (pos 5) . In the middle, it's the middle only (pos 3). Position 2 is the bridge and middle, position 4 is the middle and the neck.

 

[Old Music Guy]

I've thought about this for too long. IMHO, A stacked humbucker should not be installed with a RWRP. The RWRP is only to be used with single poles. The RWRP, and I understand it, is to reduce HUM with 2 single poles. It might be a better idea to either lose the RWRP or lose the humbucker.
I would explain my logic, but I don't understand it myself. Put a SSL 5 in the bridge and move on

 

[ashcat_lt]

I hardly ever use the in-between positions…

I’ve always considered those like “special effects” settings. If I’m actually honest, my one 3-pickup guitar actually has individual on/off for each. It has a Tele 3-way switch (which, nobody ever talks in numbers for these or literally any other pickup selector, only Strat), but it’s a master On-Kill-Tone Kill, not a selector.

 

[ashcat_lt]

I would explain my logic, but I don't understand it myself.

Obviously!

Not trying to blow up your skull, but consider for a moment that a “normal” single coil is also RWRP with respect to one of the coils of the humbucker. Whatcha gonna do now?!?

 

[Papanate]

Obviously!

Not trying to blow up your skull, but consider for a moment that a “normal” single coil is also RWRP with respect to one of the coils of the humbucker. Whatcha gonna do now?!?

Well you could rewire the RWRP pickup backwards with the Lil 59 - and then wire your RWRP so its the right way with you neck pickup - still I’m. not sure if that will work or just cause a worse sound! - It’s probably best to get rid of the RWRP and replace with a regular wound pickup.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Do the screwdriver test and post results! Do the hum check and post those results. We’ll have the answer before you have to warm up the hot stick.

 

[Old Music Guy]

Not trying to blow up your skull, but consider for a moment that a “normal” single coil is also RWRP with respect to one of the coils of the humbucker. Whatcha gonna do now?!?

Exactly. And that seems to be the conundrum..
Here's my thought, and feel free to school me:
A RWRP in the middle "essentially" creates a "humbucker" with the neck OR bridge pickup. Given standard wiring, the bridge and neck pickups are never coupled together.
A humbucker is analogous to a RWRP coupled with a single coil, either bridge or neck. (I think you said that)
It would seem to me that there are three options: 1. the RWRP needs to replaces by a standard single coil; 2. split the coils on the humbucker. 3. lose the Lil 59 for a single coil.
This is a real brain teaser. It's been a very long time since physics. But, @ashcat_lt , I think your spot on.
I'm getting ready to do some pup swapping on a new Strat build. When I see what I have, maybe we can do a swap OG?

 

[Scott Baxendale]

Hey y'all,

I have a Strat and just replaced the stock pickups with the following pickups:

Bridge: Seymour Duncan Little 59 (single coil-sized humbucker)
Middle: Seymour Duncan RWRP Vintage pickup
Neck: Seymour Duncan

All positions sound great except for the neck/middle position, which sounds super thin and out of phase. This is my first (knowing) experience with a RWRP middle pickup. It occurred to me that maybe I need to reverse the wires for the middle pickup. In other words, I wired it up just like the neck pickup, with white as hot and black as ground. Do I need to switch those wires?

Thanks

You really want to reverse the wires on the neck pickup. If you reverse the middle won’t it now be out of phase with the bridge?

 

[RFR]

@famous beagle 15minutes with a soldering iron will tell you more than all the posts on this thread.

 

[ashcat_lt]

But, @ashcat_lt , I think you’re spot on.

I KNOW that I’m right. YOU are still confused AND either unwilling to or incapable of actually reading and understanding what anybody else in this thread is saying. It’s getting pretty frustrating.

The OP doesn’t have a problem with their humbucker. You probably don’t either. There is NO reason you can’t combine an HB with an SC and get their string sensing in phase. It works people do it all the fucking time. It’s fine. There will be a little noise, but it’s fine. If they’re both wired correctly, it’s fine. If you wired one of them upside down, they’ll be OoP. That’s NOT because one is an HB, it’s because you fucking wired it wrong! The HB is NOT the problem.

The HB is NOT the problem.

The HB is NOT the fucking problem!

And that’s the last I’m going to engage with you on the matter. That particular question is answered.

 

[ashcat_lt]

@famous beagle 15minutes with a soldering iron will tell you more than all the posts on this thread.

Fkin screwdriver test would do it without having to do any surgery at all!

 

[Old Music Guy]

I KNOW that I’m right. YOU are still confused AND either unwilling to or incapable of actually reading and understanding what anybody else in this thread is saying. It’s getting pretty frustrating.

Who is "YOU"?

There is NO reason you can’t combine an HB with an SC and get their string sensing in phase.

I think you may have overlooked the OP's issue: He has a RWRP pup in the middle. You are right that there should be no issue with a HB and a SC. But the single coil he's having issues with is designed to be out of phase with the single coil bridge or the single coil neck. That's the same theory that makes a humbucker: 2 single coils wired in series and out of phase.
Combine the RWRP with a humbucker is going to be a challenge unless you split the coils on the humbucker.
Chill dude. This ain't a contest.