RNC and drums popping

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gamelan
  • Start date Start date
G

Gamelan

New member
I usually track drums with no comp and add it later with software. Lately I figured, hey I'm always compressing this stuff (about 2:1), so why not just track it with compression? So, I fired up the RNCs. It's fine until I hit a loud flam (two loud notes on the snare within milliseconds of each other) and then it pops bad. It pops less in supernice but still subtly there on the biggest ones, just enough to be superannoying. I've tried opening up the attack past 20 and it's still there. This is happening on both the close snare mic and the overheads, both condensors, through 2 different RNCs. It also seems to be tweaking the hihat sound a little and making it more clicky, like it's jumping right at the mic, but maybe I'm just getting oversensitive. I love my RNCs, they usually sound great.

What causes this? Operator error? Is the RNC not quick enough for drums? Is it bringing out mic or preamp overload that I wasn't hearing before? I don't want to squish the transients. The goal is to even out the ring of the cymbals slightly and generally tighten up the sound just a little. The input level to the RNC is very conservative (around -2db peak on the board insert). I have to set the threshold from -10 to -20 to get -2db of gain reduction on the RNC meter depending on the attack setting. Seems weird but that's how it works out. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Again, it only happens on two loud hits really close together. Suggestions?
 
Have you tried lengthening the release time? It could be "stuttering," or reopening in the middle of closing. If you think it may just be accenting an overloaded pre, turn down the gain a bit. I found I was using much too much preamp gain on OH's in the past, I now go for "just barely enough" gain during set-up, since the performance will generally get louder.
 
I've adjusted the release in the range of 0.3 to about 1 but will see if longer is better. Stuttering makes sense. Thanks.
 
Gamelan said:
...The goal is to even out the ring of the cymbals slightly and generally tighten up the sound just a little.
Click to expand...
..But the compressor sees what's loudest, (+/- the shape Vs attack somewhat) and responds to that. It's possible that the snare will interfere with settings that give the shape you want for the cymbals and kit.
 
i've found that the RNC just isn't quick enough for drums. it's great on a lot of things.....but snare just isn't one of them.

the times i've managed to "calm" that "pop" that you're describing.....it ends up being replaced with a sound that is reminiscent of a wet brown bag--a soggy slap.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
i've found that the RNC just isn't quick enough for drums. it's great on a lot of things.....but snare just isn't one of them.

the times i've managed to "calm" that "pop" that you're describing.....it ends up being replaced with a sound that is reminiscent of a wet brown bag--a soggy slap.


cheers,
wade
Click to expand...
Hmm. But not fast enough? I've had them effectively erase the front end of the snare from overhead tracks, then let as much or little back in by backing off on the attack.
Wayne
 
mixsit said:
Hmm. But not fast enough? I've had them effectively erase the front end of the snare from overhead tracks, then let as much or little back in by backing off on the attack.
Click to expand...

yeah, i dunno what the issue was here.....i was using it on the snare mic (rather than overheads), and no matter where i set it, i just didn't get a pleasing (let alone usable) sound. fast attack, long release and anywhere in-between......it was all a variation on "suck". similar to my experiments with it on bass guitar......but different.

no matter--i patched in my symetric cl150 and used it instead. that thing'll make a snare (or guitar) sound huge. :D


cheers,
wade
 
Figure I'm pushing it using a condensor on the top snare head, couldn't get a good sound and back to software compression on the close mic. Thinking position has something to do with it on the overheads. Was recording x/y and the pop is similar in sound to a phase issue, like micing with two pzms back to back. The snare is in phase on screen and sounds fine otherwise, but maybe the mics were in position to create a tiny variance that made the rapid peaks too much for the RNC. Gonna try ortf and others.
 
OK, now I get it. It's not the RNC that's slow, it's the meters! It's hard to play the parts and track them at the same time, so I was relying on the meters to show a 2db peak gain reduction. But, by the time they show 2db on a snare track it's simply too much compression. Getting a much better sound now. To those who responded, thanks for the input, it helped.
 
I've noticed that without changing anything but going from a fast release to slower, very often the meters will indicate much deeper gain reduction going on -in hardware and on plugs.
Just a meter ballistics thing?
 
i too found the rnc to be an awesome tom and snare drum comp...if it's too slow you may be in 'super nice'. complaining of the meters being slow sounds like it just may be in super nice.

in normal mode - it's fast and the a/r knobs are fab at dialing in what ya need.

Pax

Mike
3 rnc's in the place to be...
 
bigtoe said:
... in normal mode - it's fast and the a/r knobs are fab at dialing in what ya need.
Click to expand...
In many cases peple seem to like SuperMice as the way to go. But WYSIWYG normal mode is cool. Right or wrong, it goes exactly where you tell it (to).
:D
 
I'm using normal mode on the close mic. Experimenting and finding settings where the artifacts are minimized and getting 5-7db of gain reduction. It's fine for most hits, but those loud flams are a bit tougher to dial in. It's a style thing I guess.

When sending a signal that peaks around -1/-2db, with the fastest attack setting and a fast release, threshold -4/-5 and ratio over 10, the meter doesn't show much action. But, I hear reduced transients and it shows on the computer. Maybe the meter blinks so fast it's hard to see? Got me.

I'm asking the RNC to do a lot and do it fast and just finding that point where it maxes out. It's a fine line.
 
it can be kinda touchy - but i think it is touchy because it is so accurate...

perhaps yer meter is funky - i've read people having great experiences with the company - maybe give em a call. all i know is i have not had the same experience after a few years using em.

"but those loud flams are a bit tougher to dial in. It's a style thing I guess."

this could be a playing thing that won't be solved after the fact with any compressor...i've definitely been there. :eek: :eek: :eek:

try compressing the normal hits with one and if you have another rnc - set it up as a brick wall limiter: inf:1. when those flams come thru they'll be settled.

i agree, mixit - i use the regular mode 99% of the time. it rules. i want one of the RNLA's!


Mike
 
Last edited:
Tried the brick wall 25:1 thing by itself and couldn't get a sound I liked. So I'm compressing for moderate gain reduction and will probably limit further on the computer. Recording in 16 bit so trying to maximize the input levels without much coloration. Also the drum sound is a bit different, tuned down to G, about a 5th lower than normal, going for a wet natural head sound with crunchy snares. There's a lot of air moving and with an LCD placed in the meat of the wave it gets a little wild. But, it sounds pretty cool once everything is balanced. I appreciate the experience you all have with this gear. Helps take some of the mystery out of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top