relative song levels

[dobro]

I've asked this question before, but I'm getting into the nitty gritty of it now, and would appreciate some opinions.

How much difference in level should there be between these songs:

1 voice and acoustic guitar

2 two voices, acoustic guitar and bass

3 main vocal, triple backup vocal, three acoustic guitars, bass plus beats

How many dB difference between 1 and 3 above?

I bought and listened to Dylan's recent release of his 1975 Rolling Thunder live stuff (excellent album, btw). It'll go from a full-on electric guitar rock band with multiple vocals to just Dylan and his acoustic guitar singing Hard Rain's Gonna Fall. As near as I can tell, the level of Dylan's voice and acoustic guitar are nearly the same in both songs - that is, the quiet song is *way* quieter. Is that a standard approach?

 

[scottboyher]

I wouldn't concentrate on numbers so much as mood.. I think an album or set of songs go together to create a mood.. I don't know if there is a set way to determine what volume they should be.

I know this didn't help but I just thought I would let you know what I do..

 

[dobro]

Rather than mood, I'm relying mainly on my ears. But since this is the first time I've done this, I want opinions other than the ones my ears are giving me.

 

[littledog]

Rather than mood, I'm relying mainly on my ears. But since this is the first time I've done this, I want opinions other than the ones my ears are giving me.

your question cannot be answered with an absolute numerical value or percentage. set the levels so that they sound right to you as one song transitions into the next.

if you want opinions other than your own ears, use some other people's ears too.

by the way, if you ever do discover a workable shortcut that actually replaces listening, try to patent it, as you will become a rich man...

 

[dobro]

"...by the way, if you ever do discover a workable shortcut that actually replaces listening, try to patent it, as you will become a rich man..."

I'm glad you raised the issue for me. It just so happens I am currently in the fortunate position of being able to offer to the public my all-new, all-good, no-holds-barred, no-problem-too-big-to-deal-with publication entitled "Dobro's Studio in a Box - Your Guide to Mixing Joy". The 'box' in question will contain a 14-page book jam-packed with settings designed to make any mixer's life easier - you want presets? Well look no further! You want numbers you can count on? Here's what you're looking for! The box will also contain a CD of my latest mixing efforts as well as a teeshirt (please indicate choice of size - S, M, L, XL, XXL) with this choice of stirring messages emblazoned on either the front or back:

if it ain't dobro, it ain't sound

the real dobro - mixes that make it

it's no go without dobro

You heard it here first. Special discount for hr.com members.

 

[dobro]

Okay, I nailed it, I think. I figured out how to do it, for this album anyway. I compared levels of just the vocal track in each song on the album - I soloed the vocal track on each song, and because I have two versions of Cool Edit, it was really easy to compare two songs at a time. I know how loud I was singing each song, and how loud or quiet the vocal should sound in relation to every other vocal on the album. I started with the loudest song on the album, normalized it, and worked all comparisons from that vocal.

I chose the vocal tracks to compare, because they're the centerpiece of all the songs, but you could just as easily do this comparison thing with drums or bass or guitar.

 

[littledog]

Comparing lead vocal levels from song to song is a very common mastering technique. It's also good to do it with drums. Sometimes if the vocals are the same level, but the drums are radically different, it may be a clue that you need to remix.

 

[Vurt]

(please indicate choice of size - S, M, L, XL, XXL)

What the hell, it doesn't automatically come in the size I need?

I don't want it

 

[dobro]

"Comparing lead vocal levels from song to song is a very common mastering technique."

So, I reinvented the wheel, huh? Never mind - it's a very useful thing, this wheel. Everything's falling into place.

"It's also good to do it with drums. Sometimes if the vocals are the same level, but the drums are radically different, it may be a clue that you need to remix."

Yeah, right. After I did the vocal level comparison and adjusted accordingly, I then compared bass levels and guitar levels to see what I could see and found they were already in line - presumably the mixes were already okay.

Vurt - it's just a teeshirt. If you want something to automatically come in the size you need, look in the mirror.

 

[dobro]

Bump.

This technique is great. Near as I can tell, I've got the different song levels right to within about a dB - or within a dB of what sounds good enough to me, anyway. Wonderful.

 

[littledog]

good work, dobro!