Recording My Handsome Nell

[Neeps]

Okay I'm a newbie at this home recording lark and I'm depending on you guys to teach me the ropes... after years of being shy and only performing in front of friends... me and a couple of mates have decided to bite the bullet and go public with our songs...

So we started recording and I whipped up a website to promote our material... now it turns out that web design was a whole lot easier to learn than sound engineering.. the result is that we've got a website up and runnning and people are beginning to look at it... but the songs aren't recorded properly yet... I need tips fast... I'd especially like advice on Southern Road cos we only really put up the second track (After the Prozac) cos the first one was lonely for such a big website...

http://www.myhandsomenell.com/downloads.html

Cheers
Ally

 

[Neeps]

Go on... you know you want to slate it... hit me with it... (there's more to comment on in the second half if you can endure the first)

 

[Purge]

I could've listened to the instrumentation all day--great stuff. Honestly, the vocals kinda ruined it for me...and the singing wasn't even bad. I just dug the intro that much.

 

[Neeps]

if you can bear all six minutes it's reprised at the outro...

 

[Neeps]

Doesn't anyone have any mixing tips? How do I make it sound more professional? Is it mike placement? The guitar and mandola sound bland. I want them to sound as good as they do in my living room. I know all about the timing problems and the duff bits in the singing... ignore those they will be fixed... I'm planning on retracking everything... but when I do what should I be looking out for? Should I use stereo recording on both the acoustic guitar and the mandola or neither? Should I record them both mono and pan one left and the other right?

Okay so these aren't really mixing tips I'm looking for... more like recording tips...

Suppose I came to your studio with this song, and you were the engineer... how would you go about recording it?

and lets say that the fiddle is just there as a guide track and we'll need a real fiddle player at some point...

come on guys help me out here...

 

[Rokket]

Doesn't anyone have any mixing tips?

Is this a mono recording? Am I missing something?


Mixing tip #1: Panning!!!! You need some separation of your instruments to give them a place in the mix...


I was grooving on that piano/mandolin thing too! The singer wasn't bad, mind you, but the intro was so cool.

 

[Neeps]

The secret for the intro is in the chord progression. The mandola just plays the same thing but the chords supporting it change. It's a basic three chord thing I, IV, V (I think, maybe I, V, IV) that gets repeated but each time a different chord is converted to its relative minor starting with the last one, then the middle one then the first one. It's a neat trick don't you think?

 

[Neeps]

Is this a mono recording? Am I missing something?

No Rokket it was me that was missing something. The mixdown that i had uploaded to the website was a mono version. I didn't even spot it. I'm uploading a new version as I type.

Still I can't believe that in the mixing clinic only one person spotted that it was mono. Full marks and a gold star to Rokket.

 

[jeap]

the southern thing doesnt appear to be active.

the prozac thing sounds pretty cool... an intimate and interesting sound. the vocal is a little affected. you tryin to be cute?

the drums are total cheese and dont fit. they sound much more dull than the rest of it.

i wanted to hear the interesting progression but you let me down. really really really let me down.

 

[Neeps]

What can I say... I was uploading a new normalised version cos it was too quiet (it's still too quiet) but it should be back up now. Sorry to have made you go all red.

After the Prozac is really just an idea... I'm not sure how to record it at all. Might go acoustic, that was how the song started. As for the drums, well we don't have a drummer we've only got Steinberg's Groove Agent and I don't even know how to work that either. As for the vocal. I dunno.That's the way it came out...

 

[Neeps]

OK so Rokket said let there be panning... and there was panning... and it sounded much better...

What else?

How would you set up the mics to record the mandola and the acoustic guitar in this song? Stereo? Mono? Up close? Far out? At the moment they are both mono but would stereo miking help any or would things get too busy?

I'd really appreciate any advice?

 

[Cosmic]

Hi Al,
Listened to Handsome Nell; beautiful, haunting song. Given the length of it, a few more variations (like penny whistle for the chorus) might be good, but the song fits right in with the folk tradition.
Your engineering is fine too; you are on the right track when it comes to spacing of instruments and giving the lead its room.
Look forward to hearing more from you,

Best,

CC

 

[BJW]

Hey this was good. Sorry I'm not too experienced, so I'm not going to give advice about something I'm not knowledgable about. When it (Southern Road) first started, it sure felt like that Jet song - what's the name - something like "made a fool of everyone" - kind of a beatles feel. Of course it took its own feeling shortly after. Also - I liked the vocals.

 

[borntoplease]

maybe some compression on the bass on "lay down my love"... i love the song, haunting. i think i posted this on the wrong handome nell thread. oh well. what can ya do?

 

[Rokket]

OK so Rokket said let there be panning... and there was panning... and it sounded much better...

What else?

How would you set up the mics to record the mandola and the acoustic guitar in this song? Stereo? Mono? Up close? Far out? At the moment they are both mono but would stereo miking help any or would things get too busy?

I'd really appreciate any advice?

Panning is good, but now it seems like the right side is loaded and the left is just there.... You know what I mean? Keep at it, I love the intro...


I still think it could have been an instrumental and would be brilliant (you ought to try it).

 

[jeap]

hey i finally listened to your intro and its pretty good. i liked the vocal. loud clear and authentic foreign accent!

i was streaming it which is a slow process on dialup so i decided to download it.

well its a huge file. i dont know if your song is way too long or if your resolution is higher than 128 kbps but i just dont feel like downloading such a huge file. maybe you can cut it in half? or fourths?

3 minutes at 128 makes a nice file size for us non-broadband folk.

you have a clear sound but theres too much clicky-clack and sliding sounds on the strings.

 

[Neeps]

Thanks for the positive comments from those who liked it... this is the first time we've had comments from anyone that isn't either family or a close friend (strangely they always like it)... so it's nice to get some encouraging feedback...

Given the length of it, a few more variations (like penny whistle for the chorus) might be good....

ahh but that would go against my 4th Golden Rule for Golden folk... - No bloody Penny Whistle!

Your right about needing a little variation... the song is over 6 minutes (sorry jeap) and long discussions have taken place about how we could cut it down but we can't bear to take the scissors to any of it...

 

[Rokket]

Your right about needing a little variation... the song is over 6 minutes (sorry jeap) and long discussions have taken place about how we could cut it down but we can't bear to take the scissors to any of it...

Sometimes you have to "kill your darlings" to use an old screenwriter's quote. Just listen to it part by part and figure out what keeps the song solid what what can be taken out without taking too much away from the point of the song....

 

[Neeps]

I'm still looking for specific recording tips for the guitar and mandola...

Hell lets throw it open... I've got £600 to spend on some new gear (roughly 1137.81 US dollars)... Southern Road and Lay Down My Love from the other thread are good examples of the kind of stuff we want to be recording...

Here's the question... what mics and mic preamps should I go for to make these instruments - acoustic guitar, mandola and vocal - sound as good as they can? and no I can't go overbudget £600 is a ridiculus amount for me to be spending on mics already... well okay £700 absolute max and not a penny more...

Here's my gear so far -

3.2 Ghz Intel pc
1024 gigs ram
EWS 88 MT 8 in 8 out soundcard
Cubase sx 2.2.0
Behringer UB2442FX mixer 16 ins 8 outs
4 x M-Audio AudioBuddies (two input mic pre amps)
1 x AKG C3000B LDC
1 x Shure SM58
1 x Samson C01 (cheapo, allegedly noisy)

The catch is that I also need to get monitor speakers from that bundle of cash as well... like really need to as I'm never spending another penny on recording gear after this...

I've been listening to the LD mics auditioned at this site - http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/session5.htm

Now i know that's not my guitar but if I were to pick a favorite from that line up it would be the SE Electronics Z5600... I love the warmth and clarity...

but that can't happen cos they cost £399 and most of my budget would be blown already... so I'd settle for the Red5 Audio RV15... it comes in at £220, nearly half the price and to my ears sounds ok... any opinions on whether this would suit my vocal?

then I'm thinking maybe £200 (or cheaper) for the monitor speakers...

can I get a tube pre amp as well please?

ohh and do I need a pair of SD mics as well for stereo recording the acoustic?

or could I get away with using the Red5 RV15 alongside the AKG C3000b or is that stupid?

damn! damn! this isn't going to work is it...

remember everything other than the sampled piano and fiddle (and bass) was recorded using the C3000B.... so lets see who can stretch their ears far enough to reverse-imagine the actual sound of my voice and instruments and come up with the right mic to suit my tone...

okay so maybe your ears don't stretch that far but any ideas would be really really appreciated... who's gonna take this on?

 

[Rokket]

Unfortunately, I can't be much help as I am not a gear head. I keep it simple and get away with it. I only have one mic (audio technica Pro 100, only made and sold in Japan), and most of my gear was given to me or I found it... The audio technica mics work well and are reasonably priced. But if you pose this question in the mic forum, you'll get a lot of positive answers...
Check out Musician's Friend or another instrument sales site for pre amps. I don't even have one yet.
Can you believe I get the results I do with nothing????