Recording Loud Vocals

[chewmanfoo]

I'm new to this.

I have a cheap Shure 55SH, a Soundcraft Spirit M12, and a PC with MAudio Delta1010. I'm trying to record a vocal track on SONAR 2. I get a lot of this:

attached: wave.png

That flat spot on the wave is where the meter on SONAR goes all red, and there's nothing but a buzz on the track. I try, but I find it incredibly hard to find a happy medium so that all the quiet vocals have a lot of body and sparkle while the loud vocals don't do what they did here. What's it called?

Anyway, how do I set up the microphone where I won't get this? Do I need a different mic? I set the fader to unity, and talk into the mic while I increase the gain until it's almost to 60 dB. Is this wrong? Is there a method in software to make the flat spots sound OK? I tried the limiter, but it just makes the entire track quieter, but the flat spots are still flat.

Help?!!?
chewy

 

[RideTheCrash]

I'm not the greatest person for advice, but try a compressor maybe so that it can't peak to a certain level?

 

[TexRoadkill]

The way to set levels is to sing the part as closely as you can to the real performance and set the gain so your loudest parts do not clip. When you are setting instrument levels do the same. Be sure to check the bass notes because they are usually the strongest.

Proper mic technique is a big part also. You need to work the mic like it's another instrument and get up closer or move back farther away as necessary. Just make sure that the overall sound doesn't change too much. One of the problems of recording in a poor sounding room is that as you get louder you hear more room sound in the background that wasn't there for the softer parts. Only acoustic treatment of the room can help that.

 

[sonusman]

Is that a screen shot of the real wave form that was recorded?

Having a cheap mic to record vocals is no help usually. Cheap dynamic mics will exibit some strange behaviors when tracking dynamic vocals.

Ed

 

[chewmanfoo]

Cheap mic, screen shot...

Yeah, it is a crappy mic. I'm going to try using a CD played into one of the channels and recorded through the mixer and soundcard to rule out the expensive components.

No, that was not a screenshot. It was just a diagram. But on the loudest parts, the waveform "goes off the scale", and the sound is muffled and dead.

Thanks,
chewy

 

[Hard2Hear]

You need a compressor or limiter in your vocal recording chain. These are the times when software alone can't cut it. You are clipping the soundcard, and once that's done you can do NOTHING to fix it afterwards. Go Buy an RNC, or a Behringer Composer Pro, or an 1176.

H2H

 

[volltreffer]

If you have REALLY strong changes in dynamics, you might also think of singing different parts in different takes. I sang (and recorded ) a song with everything from whispering to screaming, and I had to throw the last chorus away, as the (rather strange mic technique) for me seemed to be to be some 4m away from the mic. The sound was not too bad alone but completely different from the rest. I used a compresser on my way in but had to back off that much cause otherwise the softer parts were too squished...

Some different takes and comping would surely have been a better solution...

aXel

 

[mgraffeo]

repeat after me:

mic technique
mic technique
mic technique

You can fix some of these problems with a compressor, and you can turn down the gain, but in the end, the technique of the singer is the most critical part of getting a good take. Everything else suggested will be working on fixing a problem which occurred at the source. Experiment with working the microphone; singing at various distances, on and off axis, towards the mic and away from the mic. You can capture the emotion of a part with large dynamic range without having a HUGE change in the levels. This requires the singer to "work the mic."


-mg

 

[chewmanfoo]

Soundcraft?

The local clerk at Guitar Center says it's partly my mic and partly my preamps -aka- my Soundcraft Spirit M12. Lotsa people on this BBS told me to get Mackie, but my impression of the product was that is was flimsily made and didn't look like quality electronics (I know, I know, I'm NO expert.) This Soundcraft mixer on the otherhand is all I was dreaming of. SOLID knobs and sliders. Perfect assembly etc. But are the preamps on the Mackie better? Have I bought a dud?

For example, those of you using a Mackie, what do you set your gain and levels to? How does it record? Is setting up the mic levels something a monkey could do, and therefore my mic is the problem and should be thrown into traffic and I should buy a condenser? Those of you with a SPIRIT Mx product, how do you like it?

Help!
chewy.

 

[TexRoadkill]

The preamp has very little to do with it and in the case of soundcraft M series they are generally considered superior to the mackie. Some preamps will distort earlier than others but your problem is on the preamp output not the input. You are distorting on the input of your soundcard and with digital there is no such thing as 'headroom'. Once you pass 0db you are screwed.

I have never in 15yrs of audio work had to track with a compressor or limiter. A good mic will definately help if you can spend some cash but the most important thing is to set the level accordingly and use proper mic technique. Relying on a limiter for proper levels is just being lazy and with the low noise floor of digital gear there is no reason to have to push your levels that close to the ceiling.

 

[deadleafecho]

That flat spot on the wave is where the meter on SONAR goes all red, and there's nothing but a buzz on the track. chewy

You can obviously see here your clipping the sound card, whether or not your clipping the pre on your mixer doesnt really matter (well it does....) The Soundcraft Spirit M12 is a solid mixer from what i know, dont know the the max dbu on its inputs is as high as mackies (+22) but either way, its entirely possible to clip the mixer and NOT the soundcard, that wouldnt sound good either just different heh.
As far as pres, if the soundcraft has the Ghost pres (which the one i found on ebay said it did..) then its got good pres.
As far as setting levels, i follow the manual 8)

 

[chewmanfoo]

Follow the manual...

The manual says:

Mic Input Maximum Level: +12 dBu
Line Input Max Level: +38 dBu

Is this good?

chewy

 

[deadleafecho]

When i say follow the manual, i mean the mackie has a section that explained how to set the input gain, namely solo the channel so it shows on the meters, and raise the gain until it hits around 0 normally and never peaks higher than +7 (+10 would be clipping the mixer)
Hrm odd according to the flow chart in my manual, my mackie is +22 on BOTH line and mic in. If your line ins are higher, maybe try and use those? Thats still not going to fix the disparity of levels between the 2 parts though....your gonna need a compressor or to track them separatley. But maybe it will stop any clipping at the mixer

 

[chewmanfoo]

Thanks!

Thanks everyone, again this is the greatest BBS for home recording starting out.

I think I may have figured it out. Basically, I have an unbelievably crappy mic. If I get a nice condenser, I'll have much better results. (I recorded guitar tracks with a whirlwind IMP2 Direct Box, and they sounded great.)

Also, I did set the gain and levels per the manual, but I was still getting crappy vocals. I know it must be the mic.

Can anyone recommend a good condenser? How about the Behringer B2? Cheap!

Thanks again!
chewy

 

[deadleafecho]

Ok sorry, i was mostly replying to the comment about clipping in sonar, not about your crappy mic heh.
I have a Studio Projects b1 ($80)and i like it alot, but given your history of clipping heh, you may wanna look at a mic with a -10db pad.