Recording in a church

[DunderXIII]

I want to record a duo of a cello and an organ, a real, big organ. For this we have access to a basilica where my aunt is the official organ player.

This thing is that I don't know how to record this. I have this equipment:
- A Studio Projects C1 condenser mic.
- A DMP3
- An iMac G5 (with Logic Express)
- A Presonus Firebox
- A DBX 166XL compressor
- A Tascam 788 workstation.
- A couple of dynamic mics.
- Lots of cables.

I was thinking about bringing the G5 over and record using the firebox and the C1. Otherwise I need to use the DMP3 with the Tascam. I feel that the Firebox pres are more transparent, the DMP3 colors the sound (its great for guitars!). I'd rather not color the sound.

And in that case, where do I put the mic?? The place is huge! Where could I get information about recording in a basilica?

Here's a link showing the organ:
http://infopuq.uquebec.ca/~uss1010/orgues/quebec/ndcap1.html

 

[DonF]

Here's how I would approach it: Have the organist and the cellist play. Plug one of your ears, and point the other one toward the cello. Move yourself around until the balance between organ, cello, and room sounds best. Place the mic in that spot.

It would be better to use two small diaphragm condensers (in one of the standard stereo arrangements), but if one C1 is all you've got, I guess you have to make the most of your opportunity.


Be sure to account for the wide dynamic range of the organ (i.e., allow plenty of headroom when you're setting your levels.)

Hope this helps,
Don

 

[NYMorningstar]

Here's a link showing the organ:
http://infopuq.uquebec.ca/~uss1010/orgues/quebec/ndcap1.html

Check them out, are those pipes fake?

 

[DunderXIII]

It's a real organ ;-)

I was thinking that maybe I could rent another mic. Because of the dynamics, should I use the compressor to avoid clipping in critical moments (as a limiter)?

 

[DonF]

I would not use a compressor while tracking. If you're recording to 24-bit (and I hope that you are!), you should have plenty of dynamic range available.

NYMorningstar, what makes you think the pipes might be fake?

 

[KonradG]

Go to your local sound rental company and rent a couple of mics (5-10 bucks a day/mic here in gainesville) that are top of the line as far as quality (ask someone else what that is ) that cuts out one bottleneck.

 

[easychair]

I would not use a compressor while tracking. If you're recording to 24-bit (and I hope that you are!), you should have plenty of dynamic range available.

NYMorningstar, what makes you think the pipes might be fake?

Happens a lot, especially in smaller churches. Pipe organs are incredibly large and complex, and expensive to maintain. Like a musical Univac. Many have a room (or two, or three) in the basement which houses the motors to drive the pipes, for instance. Definitely requires a specialist who knows ducting, organs, electricity, electronics, etc. Parts are nutso expensive as well. Many a church has installed a different solution, such as a smaller stand-alone organ, or modern electronic keyboard, which play into the house through an amp or into the house sound system. They put them in place of the original pipe organ keyboard, a lot of times.

Wow that thing looks big. Like the size of a house, or two

Dunder, I plan on being in Quebec this fall or winter, for sight seeing and to visit St. Anne's. Is the basilica open to the public? Are masses public? I'd love to hear that thing.

 

[NYMorningstar]

NYMorningstar, what makes you think the pipes might be fake?

I used to work on church pipes and the ones you see are usually fake. The real pipes are in the bellows room which is an air tight room with a moving ceiling that forces air through the pipes that are sitting in holes in the floor. It a pretty interesting setup if you ever get a chance to see one.

 

[DonF]

the ones you see are usually fake.

"Ornamental" would be a nicer word. I thought you were saying that maybe the organ wasn't really a pipe organ. I have seen some very nice pipe organs (for some reason the name "Flentrop" is stuck in my head here), but have never had the chance to examine their inner workings.

 

[easychair]

I used to work on church pipes and the ones you see are usually fake. The real pipes are in the bellows room which is an air tight room with a moving ceiling that forces air through the pipes that are sitting in holes in the floor. It a pretty interesting setup if you ever get a chance to see one.

Wow. That's even wierder than I though they were, thanks. Part of my work is acoustic consulting, and I've done more than a couple churches where they have had to give up on the pipe organ. I assumed that was what you meant.

So when the organist plays, does he/she basically control which holes are open? How long are the other pipes? What are the bellows made of?

I'm just really curious. I suppose I could Google it.

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo DUNDER "mit" no BLUNDER:

Just spray some holy water in the recording area--everything will come out fine!


Organ pipes and "that room" where all the slides, slide, and bellows bellow, and switches switch is amazing.

I was in the room at St. Mark's Church in Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN--totally amazing. Like being inside the body of a gigantic sound modual. {I knew the Organist and I got to play the organ inside the Church.} Totally awesome--such power and sound.

Cheers,

Green Hornet

 

[NYMorningstar]

Here's a pic I found of an old fella with wood pipes, awesome.

 

[bjtelford]

I wouldn't even contemplate trying to record with a single mic. The ideal setup would be a pair of AKG c414, in cardiode, on a very tall stand (pump up mast) facing and at about the center height of the organ pipes, probably about 10 - 20 yards away,a neuman U87 on a low stand approx 4 feet from the cello, and a pair of high, spaced mics for reverb.