recording electric guitar---2 methods:

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threshhold2

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obviously,a tube amp and shure57 will give the most authentic warm sound possible. but----and this is the BIG but...when the track is mixed along with bass,drums,vocals and maybe a synth AND processed with several effects including compressors etc. ---- who on earth will be able to tell wheather i recorded my guitar direct via a POD X3 or via a MARSHALL and a set of pedals.

d'you get the idea??...now show me where am i mistaken here.

:cool:
 
I'd take that a step further... why worry about any particular take for any instrument... by the time it all gets mixed together you'll hardly hear that take/instrument anyways...
 
obviously,a tube amp and shure57 will give the most authentic warm sound possible. but----and this is the BIG but...when the track is mixed along with bass,drums,vocals and maybe a synth AND processed with several effects including compressors etc. ---- who on earth will be able to tell wheather i recorded my guitar direct via a POD X3 or via a MARSHALL and a set of pedals.

d'you get the idea??...now show me where am i mistaken here.

:cool:

And that is why you use what you think sounds best. If the POD floats your boat, then go for it.
 
obviously,a tube amp and shure57 will give the most authentic warm sound possible. but----and this is the BIG but...when the track is mixed along with bass,drums,vocals and maybe a synth AND processed with several effects including compressors etc. ---- who on earth will be able to tell wheather i recorded my guitar direct via a POD X3 or via a MARSHALL and a set of pedals.

d'you get the idea??...now show me where am i mistaken here.

:cool:
There are two types of electric guitar:

1. The kind played well by a soul with something to say.

2. The kind where the guitar is just providing a wall of tone and it doesn't matter whether anything is actually played by a living being or is the result of the guitar falling off a milk crate, as long as it has "that sound".

For the first type, only those who play the second type of guitar will care whether it's played through a Mesa or a Pignose. I can turn you on to a guy who can play a ukelele (YES I said ukelele) in rock, country, blues and jazz full guitar styles better than 99% of lead guitaists out there can, and you won't give a shit that it that it sounds more like a ukelele than a Marshall.

For the second type, it's still only those who play the second type of guitar or those listeners who care more about tone than tonality, or who care more about sound than what that sound is being used to say who will really care.

G.
 
obviously,a tube amp and shure57 will give the most authentic warm sound possible. but----and this is the BIG but...when the track is mixed along with bass,drums,vocals and maybe a synth AND processed with several effects including compressors etc. ---- who on earth will be able to tell wheather i recorded my guitar direct via a POD X3 or via a MARSHALL and a set of pedals.

d'you get the idea??...now show me where am i mistaken here.

:cool:

If the Pod is the best sounding thing that you have, then use it. If you have an amp that sounds better, then don't choose the pod just for convenience.

The attitude of "you'll never hear it in the mix" is dangerous and often the first step toward making a bad overall record. When it comes time for mixing you'll regret any subpar sounds. Even things mixed in at very low levels can screw up the whole mix.

Big time engineers (unlike me) out there don't settle for subpar sounds and pay serious attention to details. They are normally able to get great sounds quickly, but if not they will work until it's right and do whatever it takes regardless of the gear.
 
obviously,a tube amp and shure57 will give the most authentic warm sound possible. but----and this is the BIG but...when the track is mixed along with bass,drums,vocals and maybe a synth AND processed with several effects including compressors etc. ---- who on earth will be able to tell wheather i recorded my guitar direct via a POD X3 or via a MARSHALL and a set of pedals.

d'you get the idea??...now show me where am i mistaken here.

:cool:

Something tells me you don't think you ARE mistaken here (I'm hearing that Tucker Someone-or-other-who-thinks-bow-ties-are-still-in from CNN's Crossfire), but all the same I'll take the bait.

I think you're missing one fairly crucial point. Your argument seems to be, if I may paraphrase, that "given all the other instruments going on in a mix, any quality difference between an amp modeler and a good amp that's been well recorded should be negligible," which on paper seems to hold a fair amount of truth to it.

However, I'd argue that this only holds true if the only difference between a model and the real thing is some mysterious "realism" or "warmth" or some other nebulous vague authenticity that one has and the other doesn't. While that may in some ways be true (and very few modelers I've played "feel" like a real amp, so there's something to be said there for playing response and how it inspires you as a player) my experience has been that this ISN'T true, and that there's usually some fundamental differences in frequency response.

My PERSONAL experience has been that the high end response of most modelers is quite a bit different from most "real" amps; they're a bit fizzier and hairy, and that the highs in particular are an area that current-gen speaker simulation hasn't quite gotten down. Additionally, the midrange doesn't usually seem as clear to me - modelers tend to sound a little blurred by comparison, when relying on speaker simulation.

Part of the problem too is that Line6 in particular seems to over-gain their amp models, so a lot of players tend to use more gain than would be advisable if they were using a "real" amp.

Anyway, the fizzy highs and the blurry mids can get you into a lot of trouble in a mix - a guitar is basically one big chunk of midrange, and if the mids aren't clear and tight, then your guitars will sound a bit indistinct.

That said, we're definitely overdue for a new generation of speaker similation technology - Line6 hasn't really released a new version of their cab modeling since 2.0, I think, and there's been a lot of work recently with impulses to simulate cab models, which seems to hold a lot of promise. Some of this is even making it out of the software world and into modelers - see the AxeFX, for one.

So, in a word, where you're mistaken is a model and a mic'd amp tend to sit in different "places" in a mix, and the combination of a good amp and a SM57 (or a nice ribbon, if you swing that way) is so popular because the frequencies it tends to emphasize sits in a mix VERY well.
 
If you are recording something heavy, like death metal, then yes, you can get away with an amp modeller or some other DI method of recording your guitar parts. It's been my personal experience that most DI'd guitars or pods, or amp syms are too 'in-your-face' to be effective for most purposes. Plugging in an acoustic with a pickup will do the same thing. Too hard to get to sit in a mix where you want space for each and every instrument. I've managed to get them to where I can live with the result, but I am far from happy with it.

DrewPeterson7 said:
"My PERSONAL experience has been that the high end response of most modelers is quite a bit different from most "real" amps; they're a bit fizzier and hairy, and that the highs in particular are an area that current-gen speaker simulation hasn't quite gotten down. Additionally, the midrange doesn't usually seem as clear to me - modelers tend to sound a little blurred by comparison, when relying on speaker simulation. "
I believe the reason is the lack of the mic. Most mics will "color" the tone a bit. We all know different mics will give you a different sound when recorded and played back.
 
i have owned/used the POD so many times......i actually had it part of my main rig at one point. But then the day hit me.........I wanted to try out a tube amp and see what the fuss was all about.

then the day came when my POD was buried in dust and lost in a pile of "toys" in my closet.

ok, enough stories....the real reason i think a real amp is better is because it simply "reacts" differently than a modeled amp. Especially real tube amps.

Although i have heard some songs where i though the Guitars sounded so KILLER, and asked what amps they were using, with a response of "ah, those were modeled plugin guitars". I was floored how good they sounded, but they did lack that lil' something called "LIFE" and "RESPONSE".

A good ol' tube amp will react differently to your touch, your phraseing, your pick attack, how loud/soft you stroke the strings. Ive never came across a Amp Modeler than can emulate that. If i played softly on my tube amp, the sound got "cleaner", and my ol' POD if i tried that...the sound still sounded the same, just a "lower volume version" of what I was picking. The POD didnt clean up like a tube amp. Although it may appear to be dynamic....it just didnt sound/feel the same to me.

But which is better in a mix? they both are! Either one will mix just as good as the other.

But i truely believe youll get a better take/performace from the real amp. Playing a real amp is just more inspiring on how it interacts with your own dynamics.

when playing a tube amp, you get to "feel it".

a amp modeler doesnt feel it.....its lifeless......
 
Southside Glen- I know you posted in good faith, and I THINK I understand what you were trying to say, but that was the most confusing post I have seen in a looooonnnnggg time!:)
 
ALWAYS get the best sound going in that you can. When you get to mixing you'll have the best sound to start with even if it gets buried. Garbage in = garbage out. That said, if the sound you WANT comes out of your modeller for a specific purpose that's ok. Not if its just ok because it is easier.
 
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