recording drums live

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mandocaster

mandocaster

non compos mentis
I have been getting a little frustrated recording drums in a live performance.

I have moved the overheads around to minimize nasty off-axis bleed from monitors. I use an SM58 on the snare. It sounds like a baseball bat hitting a telephone pole.

I attribute my difficulty to lack of experience. I don't know how anyone can help me, but I just wanted to testify that I am doing it and it sounds like shit.
 
Just a guess but I'd bet it's more the drums themselves (tuning issues). Try a single overhead mic. I'm finding it a lot easier to get things to sound the way I'd like this way. I've also started backing the tight mics away (4"-6") from their respective drums which seems to help.
 
"It sounds like a baseball bat hitting a telephone pole. "

:D

Man that's a good one! I'm going to have to tell our sound guys that one!

Sorry, I have no use full input on this one...

Uh, wait, ..have you had any luck heavily EQ'ing them?

Rick
 
man, there's so many places to go with this one.

first, make sure the drums don't totally suck (cb700, etc), and make sure they're tuned correctly. proper tuning is crucial to a decent drum sound.

next, make sure the drummer knows how to hit the drums like a man. to quote Mixerman "the guy would wail on the hat like it was the guy who raped his sister, but hit the toms like a pussy". it's amazing how often that's a true statement. drummers lay into the cymbals but couldn't hit the drum like their life depended on it.

once those things are sorted, you should be able to put up a mono OH and get a VERY usable sound. the sound you're describing out of the 58 on snare is one of the reasons a lot of people (including myself) don't like em on snare. could be the drum itself, too. some snares mic real well, some don't.....they're kinda like acoustic guitars that way.


hope this helps some.....

cheers,
wade
 
Spot on Wade. But while a 58 wouldn't be the first mic I'd reach for on snare, it's practically a 57 so I'd be more suspicious of either tuning or the player.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. When you are saying to use a single overhead do you mean that is the only mic on the kit - no kick no snare?

I like the idea, if that is the case. Any recommendations for mic and placement? I am using an AT4040 or an MXL 603s right now. The conventional thing of putting it behind the drummers right ear or whatever would seem to point it back at the stage monitors.
 
Track Rat said:
Spot on Wade. But while a 58 wouldn't be the first mic I'd reach for on snare, it's practically a 57 so I'd be more suspicious of either tuning or the player.
Click to expand...

thanks track rat. i've used a 58 on snare before in a pinch and gotten essentially the same results i've gotten out of the 57. in fact, i'd almost prefer the 58 with an untrusted drummer b/c it's got a little more protection for the diaphragm from an errant stick.


cheers,
wade
 
mandocaster said:
Thanks for all the suggestions. When you are saying to use a single overhead do you mean that is the only mic on the kit - no kick no snare?
Click to expand...

Yes--exactly. The majority of your drum sound *should* be formed around the overhead. The kick, snare (and any other close-mics) are simply "reinforcement" mics to give you more of what you don't/can't get out of the OH.

mandocaster said:
Any recommendations for mic and placement? I am using an AT4040 or an MXL 603s right now. The conventional thing of putting it behind the drummers right ear or whatever would seem to point it back at the stage monitors.
Click to expand...

in a live gig situation with monitors (especially loud ones), i would avoid the 4040. i would use SM81's if you have access to them. if not, go with the 603's, and i would start with them in front of the drummer's head (like, almost over the rack toms), and aiming down at the snare.

you shouldn't get a WHOLE lot of pickup from the singer/guitarists monitors--if you do, then turn down those monitors or move those players and monitors out of the way.

likewise, i would concentrate on getting the drum sound first, and then move the drummer's monitor around so it's not aiming at the mic--maybe put it on a chair (off the ground) next to the hihat and aim it at his head.

keep in mind that gigs aren't always about being "comfortable" or "hearing everything perfectly". especially for a band that only plays a few a month and isn't using in-ear monitors. :D


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
man, there's so many places to go with this one.

first, make sure the drums don't totally suck (cb700, etc), and make sure they're tuned correctly. proper tuning is crucial to a decent drum sound.

next, make sure the drummer knows how to hit the drums like a man. to quote Mixerman "the guy would wail on the hat like it was the guy who raped his sister, but hit the toms like a pussy". it's amazing how often that's a true statement. drummers lay into the cymbals but couldn't hit the drum like their life depended on it.

once those things are sorted, you should be able to put up a mono OH and get a VERY usable sound. the sound you're describing out of the 58 on snare is one of the reasons a lot of people (including myself) don't like em on snare. could be the drum itself, too. some snares mic real well, some don't.....they're kinda like acoustic guitars that way.


hope this helps some.....

cheers,
wade
Click to expand...


Hey not fair!
Not all drummers don't know how it hit drums, of course. Not to sound conceeded, but I've once had a live soundman tell me I was the first drummer he's ever mic'ed that actually knew how to play every piece of the drum kit properly in a live close-mic'ed situation.

Maybe those drummers you have had experience with are just plain unexperienced (it wouldn't shock the hell outta me!).













"One day...we will each experience our own encounter with whom we could call the 'perfect drummer'...someday" - Un-named music philosopher
 
RecordingMaster said:
Not all drummers don't know how it hit drums, of course. Not to sound conceeded, but......<snip>
Click to expand...

you're absolutely right. not all drummers don't know how to hit the drums.....but many don't. it's sad--guitarists know how to play *their* instrument.....but many, many drummers don't know how to properly play theirs. they just hit things with sticks. yes, many are inexperienced.....and how often do those of us running "home" studios record young bands?

when i see people start talking about "getting bad drum sounds", the first thing i look for is tuning and the room, and assuming that the drums are tuned properly and the room doesn't suck.....the next thing i look for is proper playing technique. between those things, you SHOULD be able to get an acceptable sound.

drummers who know how to play their instrument are excepted, of course. :D


cheers,
wade
 
snare tuning - which skin tuned higher?

I'm relatively new to tuning drums, and i just wondered if people generally tune the top skin or bottom skin on a snare higher than the other?
 
mandocaster said:
It sounds like a baseball bat hitting a telephone pole.
Click to expand...
I'd be willing to bet something is distorting in analog somewhere. Also, was the mic aimed right at the edge of the head? I fit two fingers between the mic and the head, and aim it where the stick hits (or should hit).

For live micing, fewer mics mean less bleed. I might put a single condenser in front of the kit (thus, aimed away from the monitors), in between tom and cymbol high. Close-mic the snare, kick, and maybe the hats. Call it done before you get into any more trouble.

The preceeding is the opinion of someone who has never generated a recording he and/or she feels comfortable posting for general consumption.
 
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