recording drums in a small room. with samples. please advise?

[fearfeasog]

hi all

i'm posting this in recording techniques, but if you think it should be moved that's fine. sorry for the trouble. i'm struggling to get great sounding recordings of my drums in my small, moderately acoustically treated home studio. the links below are the results of my efforts so far. i wonder if you'd listen to what i've done here and give me some feedback?

the mic setup is:

kik D112
snare SM57
hi tom budget Nady SP 5 (crap-a piece thereof)
mid tom Sennheiser e906
lo tom SM 57
overheads Shure PG81 in glyn johns formation
room Nady SCM-900 LCD

here are the drums recorded dry, except for compression on the master buss:

and then soaked in whatever it is i have for mixing skills, which ain't much:

thanks! ff

 

[ddrummer8]

They don't sound horrible, but sounds like the typical home recorded drums. A little boxy and cymbals are dull. Drums are tough to do with a sub-par room, mics and pre amps. To get the pro sound at home samples will be your best bet. I like the toms though, maybe a bit more attack would help, but they sound pretty good.

The kick and snare sound too thuddy to me, I like more click so it may be preference but maybe a cut at 400hz could help on the kick and a small boost around 5-8 k on the snare. Everything seems workable, but for me it's the cymbals that are lacking, they need some sparkle in the highs and that would add some life into the kit.

 

[aaronaycox]

In my opinion drums are the toughest thing out there to track. Different kits, heads, rooms, gobos, and individual artists all bring something different to the table. Then add in mic position, and.......

It makes me want to go with an electric set. I would love to be able to only record electric sets with triggers if you want the truth. Unfortunately most drummers are against an electric set. I can't say I blame them. Playing an electric kit feels fake.

As for your recording; I listened to the dry setting. I think it would mix in fine with a full recording and a few EQ adjustments.

 

[Bisson820]

In my opinion drums are the toughest thing out there to track. Different kits, heads, rooms, gobos, and individual artists all bring something different to the table. Then add in mic position, and.......

It makes me want to go with an electric set. I would love to be able to only record electric sets with triggers if you want the truth. Unfortunately most drummers are against an electric set. I can't say I blame them. Playing an electric kit feels fake.

As for your recording; I listened to the dry setting. I think it would mix in fine with a full recording and a few EQ adjustments.

Electric sets sound like electric sets.... can you imagine nirvana, acdc, kings of leon, etc with electric drums??? horrible.

I'd get over that idea of yours and just learn how to place and eq...

To be honest i like the "unmixed" version better as a starting point. you need to be smart with EQ and realize that just because of the actual tonality of the voice (each drum) is at a certain level, does NOT mean that you should boost or cut accordingly... a kick will still sound like a kick if you boost the high end... point being... each item of the kit needs to be EQ'd in its own space and it shouldn't be guess work based on its frequency... do whats best for the sound and don't follow any rules.

I say this because unfortunately.. you're going to get bad results for a while until you get your ears trained a little on finding and cutting the problem frequencies and using slight boosts to the good frequencies.

a lot of a drums power comes from its attack... make sure you get some clear stick noise!!! (5k area)...

Smart panning and compression is essential also... panning is pretty easy.. but compression also takes some time to get it right.

Dont confuse volume increase with quality improvement... and that goes for compression AND EQ.

Don't be afraid to experiment with some slight limiting on the kick and snare ... just to tame the random BIG hits that are in there... this will help you get a louder master in the end....

Most important is grasp the concept that less is more when it comes to editing.... to get optimal results you gotta start getting close to the sound you want with placement... i was ignorant for a while and figured "yea thats what they all say... i'll show them" ... but in the end they were all right.

The more you EQ and compress and add reverb and delayed automate and limit and all that.. the more likely you are you screw things up.

eventually you will get to a point where you can solo the snare track and hear the ACTUAL problem tones... then you sweep around and find the problem and cut that bitch right out. and then that might show you ANOTHER problem tone once that first one is out and then you wanna find that one too.... and then you will start to try to decide which tones are problems and which ones you want and adjust accordingly.

this is all stuff you will learn on your own if you stick with it and never settle.... ever.

 

[fearfeasog]

They don't sound horrible, but sounds like the typical home recorded drums. A little boxy and cymbals are dull. Drums are tough to do with a sub-par room, mics and pre amps. To get the pro sound at home samples will be your best bet. I like the toms though, maybe a bit more attack would help, but they sound pretty good.

The kick and snare sound too thuddy to me, I like more click so it may be preference but maybe a cut at 400hz could help on the kick and a small boost around 5-8 k on the snare. Everything seems workable, but for me it's the cymbals that are lacking, they need some sparkle in the highs and that would add some life into the kit.

hey thanks! yeah i figured they sounded not so hot. i'll work on it! ff

 

[fearfeasog]

In my opinion drums are the toughest thing out there to track. Different kits, heads, rooms, gobos, and individual artists all bring something different to the table. Then add in mic position, and.......

It makes me want to go with an electric set. I would love to be able to only record electric sets with triggers if you want the truth. Unfortunately most drummers are against an electric set. I can't say I blame them. Playing an electric kit feels fake.

As for your recording; I listened to the dry setting. I think it would mix in fine with a full recording and a few EQ adjustments.

thanks! yeah out of context i really can't know for sure. and i always go overboard with the processing.

 

[fearfeasog]

electric sets sound like electric sets.... Can you imagine nirvana, acdc, kings of leon, etc with electric drums??? Horrible.

I'd get over that idea of yours and just learn how to place and eq...

To be honest i like the "unmixed" version better as a starting point. You need to be smart with eq and realize that just because of the actual tonality of the voice (each drum) is at a certain level, does not mean that you should boost or cut accordingly... A kick will still sound like a kick if you boost the high end... Point being... Each item of the kit needs to be eq'd in its own space and it shouldn't be guess work based on its frequency... Do whats best for the sound and don't follow any rules.

I say this because unfortunately.. You're going to get bad results for a while until you get your ears trained a little on finding and cutting the problem frequencies and using slight boosts to the good frequencies.

A lot of a drums power comes from its attack... Make sure you get some clear stick noise!!! (5k area)...

Smart panning and compression is essential also... Panning is pretty easy.. But compression also takes some time to get it right.

Dont confuse volume increase with quality improvement... And that goes for compression and eq.

Don't be afraid to experiment with some slight limiting on the kick and snare ... Just to tame the random big hits that are in there... This will help you get a louder master in the end....

Most important is grasp the concept that less is more when it comes to editing.... To get optimal results you gotta start getting close to the sound you want with placement... I was ignorant for a while and figured "yea thats what they all say... I'll show them" ... But in the end they were all right.

The more you eq and compress and add reverb and delayed automate and limit and all that.. The more likely you are you screw things up.

Eventually you will get to a point where you can solo the snare track and hear the actual problem tones... Then you sweep around and find the problem and cut that bitch right out. And then that might show you another problem tone once that first one is out and then you wanna find that one too.... And then you will start to try to decide which tones are problems and which ones you want and adjust accordingly.

This is all stuff you will learn on your own if you stick with it and never settle.... Ever.