Recording Distorted Guitars

[superspit]

No I agree with hi-flyer, sometimes an amp can sound really decent in the room and then when it comes to putting it to disk it just doesn't translate. I've recorded this exact amp and while I does sound decent in a recording it does not sound like a good, quality tube amp. BTW shit in/shit out is a pretty generic response that is extremely obvious.

Hi JC....
and you call my response 'generic'....geeeesh!

The only reason a sound doesn't 'translate' is because of the type of recording technique applied at the time....(by way of mic placement, instrument quality, mic type/quality, engineer experience, eq settings....etc..etc)......simple?....not!

My point was that if you have a great sounding amp, or whatever, it is under YOUR complete control as to how the sound is captured, no excuses.....don't blame an amplifier entirely!!

That's where experimentation comes in, and sometimes some basic quality gear.....but I'm still being obvious and generic.

How does that sit with you ?....or is that incorrect aswell?

Kindest Regards,
Superspit.

 

[JPXTom]

Hey man, i have a line 6 rig that i play guitar through...and ive recorded it and gotten pretty good results...i'd suggest lowering the high end on your amp, or lowering it on your interface(if you have an eq). Its hard, but i wouldnt go blame the amp as much as i would blame the placement of the microphone..ive tried countless angles, and have gotten a pretty good sound of things. Dont do direct, its pretty bad with solid states...but try different angles, lower the high pitches, and go in and edit it. And also, dont place it directly in the cone..back it up a few inches as well...helps so it doesnt get such a high pitched "sss" sound..if u know what i mean.

Hope this helps.

 

[StackableMusic]

Hey man, i have a line 6 rig that i play guitar through...and ive recorded it and gotten pretty good results...i'd suggest lowering the high end on your amp, or lowering it on your interface(if you have an eq). Its hard, but i wouldnt go blame the amp as much as i would blame the placement of the microphone..ive tried countless angles, and have gotten a pretty good sound of things. Dont do direct, its pretty bad with solid states...but try different angles, lower the high pitches, and go in and edit it. And also, dont place it directly in the cone..back it up a few inches as well...helps so it doesnt get such a high pitched "sss" sound..if u know what i mean.

Hope this helps.

I actually got some decent results once with a friend's Tech21 amp by mixing the direct signal with a microphone. The direct signal had a lot of body and the sizzle came from the mic.

 

[jonnyc]

Hi JC....
and you call my response 'generic'....geeeesh!

The only reason a sound doesn't 'translate' is because of the type of recording technique applied at the time....(by way of mic placement, instrument quality, mic type/quality, engineer experience, eq settings....etc..etc)......simple?....not!

My point was that if you have a great sounding amp, or whatever, it is under YOUR complete control as to how the sound is captured, no excuses.....don't blame an amplifier entirely!!

That's where experimentation comes in, and sometimes some basic quality gear.....but I'm still being obvious and generic.

How does that sit with you ?....or is that incorrect aswell?

Kindest Regards,
Superspit.

Yep, still pretty generic. BTW generic doesn't mean it's a bad response, it's just the same thing people say when they don't have anything specific to add. Shit in/Shit out, yeah everybody fucking knows that already.

 

[mrhotapples]

I always set mics by cupping an ear, usually my left, and putting my head right up to the cabinet. ALWAYS works. You find that spot that kinda jumps out at you, you'll know it. It's different for every guitar and every player, every speaker too. Do that with a good sound and adjust EQ and gain listening through the mic and you'll be on your way. Then you can go ahead and add a second mic at ear level 3 feet away and bam, more depth.

 

[superspit]

Yep, still pretty generic. BTW generic doesn't mean it's a bad response, it's just the same thing people say when they don't have anything specific to add. Shit in/Shit out, yeah everybody fucking knows that already.

I suggest you actually read my posts and how they sit in context with other responses before you start your swearing.....

I guess you've already proved what sort of a person you are via your use of syntax.

But I guess everybody knows that already?

Do you not consider that it's generally a good idea to have an 'answer' not too disproportionate to the forum question?....

And thankyou for the English lesson.....and please excuse my apparent 'poor' and obtuse input into these forums.

Regards,
Superspit.

 

[jonnyc]

I suggest you actually read my posts and how they sit in context with other responses before you start your swearing.....

I guess you've already proved what sort of a person you are via your use of syntax.

But I guess everybody knows that already?

Do you not consider that it's generally a good idea to have an 'answer' not too disproportionate to the forum question?....

And thankyou for the English lesson.....and please excuse my apparent 'poor' and obtuse input into these forums.

Regards,
Superspit.

I've read your posts, and your first one was helpful but then you decided you had to question somebody elses post eventhough he had a valid point. Your counterpoint to his point was that you didn't understand his line of thinking and then you gave the typical generic "shit in shit out" response. His point was that what some people really think sounds good in the room out of the context of the actual mix is not what's going to sound good in the mix. I can't count on all my digits how many kids have come into my place and loved the way their amp sounded when they chugged away on it yet it didn't work at all in the mix and needed a retweaking by me.

 

[DogFood]

Recently I recorded my amp with the mic barely 2 inches off the cone (perpendicular to the cone not the cap) and I got excellent isolation from the drums but the tone was too harsh like my tube amp was a bad metal ss amp. So, I backed the mic off to 6 inches and aimed the same way and I got what I was looking for. Slightly compressed compared to the ultra close micing, great volume, way way smoother tone, and some drum bleed. I, also, recommend not using the distortion pedal while recording rhythm tracks. I record'm loud, amp singing with aggressive playing for dynamic punch. I use my fuzz for solo's and notey parts.

 

[mrhotapples]

Recently I recorded my amp with the mic barely 2 inches off the cone (perpendicular to the cone not the cap) and I got excellent isolation from the drums but the tone was too harsh like my tube amp was a bad metal ss amp. So, I backed the mic off to 6 inches and aimed the same way and I got what I was looking for. Slightly compressed compared to the ultra close micing, great volume, way way smoother tone, and some drum bleed. I, also, recommend not using the distortion pedal while recording rhythm tracks. I record'm loud, amp singing with aggressive playing for dynamic punch. I use my fuzz for solo's and notey parts.

It's amazing how sometimes you're sabotaging yourself to avoid bleed in a situation like that. It's experimentation and compromise that yield the best results!

 

[jonnyc]

So who's the puss that can't sign their rep. Stop being a pussy and sign the mother fucker if you're going to deal it out.

 

[superspit]

I've read your posts, and your first one was helpful but then you decided you had to question somebody elses post eventhough he had a valid point. Your counterpoint to his point was that you didn't understand his line of thinking and then you gave the typical generic "shit in shit out" response. His point was that what some people really think sounds good in the room out of the context of the actual mix is not what's going to sound good in the mix. I can't count on all my digits how many kids have come into my place and loved the way their amp sounded when they chugged away on it yet it didn't work at all in the mix and needed a retweaking by me.

mmmm.....ok......

But as long as we're helping the kids and new comers, there will always be the back to basic responses like "5hit in/5hit out...",...I'm sure they'll understand that better innitially than going through the mechanics and math of it all??....I guess.(?)

I Thankyou.

 

[superspit]

So who's the puss that can't sign their rep. Stop being a pussy and sign the mother fucker if you're going to deal it out.

it wasn't me......
I took onboard your comments, and appreciate them.
Besides, I would proudly sign any rep.
regards,
Superspit.

 

[robin watson]

so it sounds good in the room? the simple answer is put the mic where your ears are when you're hearing it sound great. if it sounds great in the room--put the mic where your head is.

Just to add to this, and a tip I heard recently: plug one ear with your finger - that way you are really hearing it as a microphone does, seems to make sense. (Mike Nichols uses this technique apparently.)

 

[mrface2112]

No I agree with hi-flyer, sometimes an amp can sound really decent in the room and then when it comes to putting it to disk it just doesn't translate.

if this is ever the case, then you've either got the wrong mic/preamp on the amp, the placement is bad, or the room is lying to you. the room is making you THINK the amp sounds good--usually due to loud levels of the amp (louder always sounds "better") and due to "beneficial sounding" comb filtering.

in short, a mic doesn't lie.......but your ears listening to the amp are easily fooled, especially at high volumes.


cheers,
wade

 

[jjac7212]

the cupped ears technique sounds good. kinda like making your ears cardiod or atleast more directional. ill try that one next time

i was wondering if any of you had any pictures on how an amp like this should be miked? also i was wondering if my mic preamp was to blame. im using behringer stuff, just cuz its cheap haha.

in terms of obtaining a tube amp. would any one have any idea about the vox bulldog distortion pedal? its a tube pedal and i was wondering if it would suit the situation (instead of a new amp). i gather that it would atleast add the preamp tube saturation, half of which is desirable in this situation. i could live without power tube saturation for a while. i was thinking of using this on my clean channel on a reasonable level so that the power transistor runs clean but the tube preamp distorts my signal instead of my overdrive channel.
either way just looking for suggestions.

 

[jonnyc]

if this is ever the case, then you've either got the wrong mic/preamp on the amp, the placement is bad, or the room is lying to you. the room is making you THINK the amp sounds good--usually due to loud levels of the amp (louder always sounds "better") and due to "beneficial sounding" comb filtering.

in short, a mic doesn't lie.......but your ears listening to the amp are easily fooled, especially at high volumes.


cheers,
wade

your ears lying to you is exactly what Im talking about. reread my post.

 

[ecktronic]

I don't think this is always the case. Especially with some solid state amps. I have heard some solid state amps that had decent enough tone for playing live, but they didn't record all that well. Sometimes a cranked 4x12 will sound good just because its loud. Your ears get fooled into believing that louder just sounds better.

Yeah,
I kinda meant if the amp sounds good in the room, then it should be possible to get a decent sound if you have half decent mics and pres.

Tweaking will probably be a neccesity, but if the amp sounds good in the room then it should be possible to get a decent recording.

 

[NashBackslash]

I use a pair of isolation headphones when placing mics in the live room. The guitar player would sit in the control room and rock away while I move and adjust my mics in the tracking room. It's a lot of fun because everytime I move the mics, I'm hearing the changes and effects in my cans in real-time and learn so many things about multi miking guitar amps.

I would have the speaker at low volume (conversation level) while adjusting the mics, then occasionally blast it to check the tone (and make sure the signal is hot enough for the DAW).

Sometimes the guitar tone may translate slightly different in the control room monitors but doing it this way (the isolation headphones) is MUCH safer than placing my precious ears against a 4 x 12 cabinet. :O

In response to the original thread: I know that annoying solid state sizzling noise! But as many others have said, play around with your miking and don't be afraid to cut some high end on your mixing board before it goes into the DAW. You'll find that using isolation headphones is a much more productive and fun way to experiment with guitar amp miking than placing your ears against your cabinets. Also don't stick to the rules too much just because people say "you can't do this, you must do that".

I just finished tracking a metalcore band with tight palm muting and a tight drummer and we tracked the guitars using a Marshall MG100 with a 4x12 with a Boss GT-8 for the distortion. After dialing in the right distortion tone that the guitarist likes on the GT-8, we found that the "solid state sizzle" was attrocious. Two slightly angled mics, a combination of 2 separate EQs inside the GT-8 unit, then some more subtractive EQ'ing on the mixing board and we got a guitar tone that kick-ass guitar tone we wanted.

Do whatever it takes to get your sound!

 

[Sonixx]

have you considered using Cab Impulses. here's a clip I did today using a Cab Impulse file...

Example Impulse Clip

Cab Impulse files can be used with any type of music...

 

[superspit]

have you considered using Cab Impulses. here's a clip I did today with an Cab Impulse file...

Example Impulse Clip

Cab Impulse files can be used with any type of music...

Nice git sound there.....but a lot of low end rumble (?), which is a problem i found on my git recordings when using my V amp pro....sinced fixed it by switching the bass control completely off on the v-amp.

I wonder if it would be easy to use that sound within a mix??....but by itself that git sound is hot!