Recording/Audio Production Schools

[ez_willis]

I see a lot of posts seeking guidance about the various recording schools like Full Sail or CRAS.

I thought this thread would be a great way to condense all the success stories from graduates of these fine institutions, for future degree seekers to salivate over.

Tell them the advantages of enrollment vs. buying some gear and browsing these forums until you figure out how to get very decent recordings at home using affordable gear.

Tell them about the job market that they'll be placed in, more than likely.

Tell them how it got the ball rolling for your career in Audio Production/Engineering........

 

[ez_willis]

>>>Crickets<<<<

 

[IronFlippy]

Well, I'm not a graduate yet, just a ugrad student at UMass Lowell. I was originally going for a degree in computer science, but found out it wasn't my thing, so I switched over to the university's Sound Recording major. It's a four year bachelor's degree, and you get a bachelor of music in performance, which means absolutely nothing to the industry. The reason I'm attending is for the wealth of information and gear I have access to, not because I think they're going to get me a good job.

What differentiates this program of study from most other audio engineering schools is that they focus on getting you to know the structure of how everything works. They don't tell you what buttons to press in Pro Tools, that's something one can learn by their self. And since you are getting a music degree, you take the same ear training, music theory, etc classes that a performance major would (just slightly less of them) in addition to private lessons on the instrument of your choice.

I know some people think we think we're elitists here, but what the staff is attempting to do is be at the front of technological advancement in the audio field, rather than riding behind in the safe zone.

Sure it's a little pricey for where it brings you in the end, but you only live once, so why not make the most of it? AFAIK, getting a position as an engineer in a pro studio is very rare, let alone trying to make a living off of your own studio. The program is flexible, so if you want to go into A/V work, you can do that, as well as developing or engineering new audio products, doing work for other multimedia companies, etc. I, personally, want to explore the A/V field a bit more.

Is going to a school necessary to be a pro engineer? Most definitely not. But if you want to know a bit more than what buttons to press to make a good recording, then school might be what you're looking for.

Man, that was incoherent, but it's late and I'm tired. Maybe I'll edit this tomorrow sometime. Anyone have any questions?

 

[gema]

"The reason I'm attending is for the wealth of information and gear I have access to, not because I think they're going to get me a good job."

This is what I was thinking too, I planned to go to SAE next year to take Audio Engineering Diploma and continue in Bachelor of Recording Arts if possible.

I know I'm not going to get a good job out of it but its the only thing I can enjoy.

 

[IronFlippy]

"The reason I'm attending is for the wealth of information and gear I have access to, not because I think they're going to get me a good job."

This is what I was thinking too, I planned to go to SAE next year to take Audio Engineering Diploma and continue in Bachelor of Recording Arts if possible.

I know I'm not going to get a good job out of it but its the only thing I can enjoy.

I should clarify. I mean a well paying job. But that doesn't make a good job for me. I only get to live my life once, why the hell would I do something I hate for most of it? I'd much rather enjoy my job rather than luxuries I might be able to afford otherwise. It makes sense to me too, because I'm going to be spending most of my time at work, not home where the luxuries of a better paying job show. So it's really a trade off between luxuries at work or at home.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

i've looked a lot into going to either the LA Recording Workshop and Conservatory of Rec. Arts/Sciences, and decided against going to either, mostly because i can get more mileage for the money through other means

my local community college has been offering a 2-semester recording arts program the last couple of years that i completed...they have a killer studio with a great instructor, and i learned a lot of shit in the time i took those classes

now the program is being expanded to offer another 2 semesters...i'll be in the inaugural rec. arts III class starting this fall, followed by rec. arts IV next spring. after that, i'll need only to take music theory and intro electronics to receive an AA in recording arts(the school has put together the curriculum for the degree and submitted it to the state, and is now awaiting approval).

don't get me wrong...i'm sure there's plenty of advantages of going to a dedicated recording school, but as far as i'm concerned, they're not always the best deal as far as bang for the buck goes. i'm pursuing a bachelor's degree in business administration from a state university at the same time, so i feel my money is much better spent at the community college.

i mean, shit, $216 to have the following shit available to you for 2 years isn't too bad if you ask me...with the exception of the D8B and Soundcraft Ghost; these were each swapped out a few months ago for a Digidesign D Command - which is sweet for me, because i'll have the experience with the D Command, d8B, AND Ghost! I think a couple of the DBX comp's might have gotten swapped out as well, but whatever.

Equipment List:

Recording Formats
Mackie HDR-24 digital multitrack (24 bit, 48K)
Pro Tools TDM HD-96 24 track digital multitrack (24 bit, 192K)

Consoles
Mackie Digital 8-Bus, 48 input
Soundcraft Ghost, 32 input
Pro Tools on-board digital mixing surface

Compressors/Dynamics
2 UREI LA-2A
2 UREI LA-3A
2 UREI 1176 LN
3 UREI LA-22 stereo
2 DBX 160
1 DBX 162 stereo
1 DBX 165A
1 Alan Smart (Solid State Logic) SC-2 stereo

Reverbs
1 Sony R-7 Digital Reverb
1 Lexicon PCM-91 Digital Reverb
1 Lexicon 300-L Digital Reverb

Outboard microphone preamplifiers
2 Neve 1073 solid state with EQ
1 Grace Designs 801 8 channel solid state
1 Universal Audio 2-610 2 channel discrete tube with EQ
1 Focusrite ISA-215 stereo channel solid state with EQ
2 Focusrite ISA-110 single channel solid state with EQ
1 DBX 386 2 channel tube

Equalizers
1 UREI 546 stereo parametric EQ
1 Ashley stereo graphic EQ
1 Focusrite 215-2

Other
1 Valley People 4 channel gate
2 Z-Systems 8.8 digital router
1 Ashley graphic EQ
1 Sony CD player
2 Alesis Masterlink ML-9600
2 Panasonic SV-3800 DAT machine
1 Tascam 122-MK III cassette machine
1 Dorrough AES stereo bus meters
1 Antares Auto-Tune software
1 Tascam 1x4 CD duplication system

Monitors and Amplifiers
4 Genelec 1032-A nearfields
2 Yamaha NS-10M nearfields
2 Auratone cube nearfields
2 JBL LSR-32 playback
2 JBL 4430 playback
2 Bryston 4B-ST playback amplifiers
2 UREI 6260 cue amplifiers
1 Crown D-75 playback amplifier
4 UREI 539 room equalizers

Microphones
1 Neumann M-149 tube
6 Neumann U-87
2 Neumann KM-184 matched stereo pair
2 AKG C-414
4 AKG C-451 matched stereo pairs
1 AKG D-112
4 Shure SM-81
3 Shure SM-98
5 Shure SM-57
3 Sennheiser MD-421
5 Royer R-121 ribbon
2 Audio Technica AT-4041

Miscellaneous
15 AKG K240-M monitor phones
10 Beyerdynamic single phones
8 Simon Systems phone boxes
1 Avalon U-55 solid state DI
1 Demeter tube DI
6 Countryman solid state DI
1 UREI 546 click track
1 MOTU Digital Performer with MTP AV

 

[ez_willis]

I think a couple of the DBX comp's might have gotten swapped out as well, but whatever

I work at a University. The Procurement Department has liquidation auctions every few months. I've scored a bunch of old Altec preamps and compressors for $5 each. 1566a's, 438a's, 1591a's...

Check it out.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck...that's an incredible deal

the guy who teaches the classes also happens to be the chair of the fine arts division, so here and there he sells off some stuff to make room for new stuff, but never for prices that cheap

i did score a vintage UREI EQ for $50, though...actually, i guess it was pretty much free - another kid in the class paid him the cash, and then i mixed his final project for him and we called it even

 

[ez_willis]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck...that's an incredible deal

I know, and there's a storage room with about 15 more 1591a's that will be auctioned off at some point.

I sold all of 'em for a minimum of $300 each.

 

[TragikRemix]

i wouldnt take it up in college. it seems like if i choose to do it as a career, i'd be backing myself into a corner if somethin goes wrong.

i dont know, im weary about doing any music related thing in college. music is music and its gotta be inside you and you have to work for it, not sit in a lecture and have it fed to you IMO.

fall 2008, im going into NYIT for a 5yr architecture degree, basically an excellerated masters degree. but of course i'll be designing studios!!!

seriously, music in college just doesnt look appealing becuase it looks like a dead end. a bachelors in music performance?? for what? maybe you can be a teacher i guess but what other options are there?

i've never been to a band try out where someone was like, umm lemme see your transcript its either you can play, or you can't.

 

[whjr15]

music is music and its gotta be inside you and you have to work for it, not sit in a lecture and have it fed to you IMO.

I believe the first half of that statement to be true, but I beg to differ with your reasoning...

As with anything else, if you want to excel you're undoubtedly gonna have to work at it. But not everyone progresses at the same pace, and some hit the "glass ceiling" without traditional teaching methods. Some need a well planned curriculum in order to grasp the topic at hand, instead of randomly fumbling around on their own. How many people do you know who can teach themselves to become a neurosurgeon?? Ok ok, maybe that's not quite proportionate, but it's definitely the same principal... And there's no harm being done by having a seasoned professional show you the ropes!

i've never been to a band try out where someone was like, umm lemme see your transcript its either you can play, or you can't.

Haha, I definitely don't disagree with you there... But as with any other professional field, a degree definitely doesn't hurt getting your foot in the door. Of course you still have to prove your worthiness, but that's after the fact(where the "you either have it or don't" comes into play).

With the degree, it can also help show the potential employer that they're not wasting their time in considering you. It shows you have enough initiative and interest to better yourself... Compared to any of the 9000000 "producers" out there, who have a cracked copy of Reason and think they're the $h!t... If you had to hire one of them based off of that information alone, who would you call in for the interview first??

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

It's been touched upon here but not explicitly discussed, I don't think, but the chances of one who gets into this racket actually winding up recording music bands for CDs is not that large. To assume that if one goes to school to learn audio engineering, that that exact position is exactly where they are going to wind up is not necessarily a true assumption.

That's not knocking schooling. On the contrary; I would never discourage anyone from going to school for anything. And a huge advantage to places like Full Sail and SAE and the like is that they have very good internship programs and job placement opportunities for their graduates. But even they will tell you (I think possibly even on the first day, from stories I have heard) that the placement field for such graduates is much wider than they may imagine. One may wind up going into A/V editing, TV/radio/Internet production, commercials, medical or corporate productions, live shows, etc. The number of actual professional engineers that are sitting behind Neves recording the next Coldplay or Metallica album is actually relatively small in the grand scheme of pro audio engineering. Music is only a small subset of audio, even though it's almost nothing but music on this forum.

G.

 

[ez_willis]

Let me clarify the purpose of this thread.

This thread is to put together in one place those of us who have attended and graduated from a reputable audio production/engineering school.

There are lots of inquiries from young bucks about these schools, so instead of explaining the pro's and con's of each of them, we can just point them here to see for themselves the many benefits of attending such an institution.

This thread isn't for current enrollee's to justify why they have put themselves in debt to follow their dream, or to try to persuade anyone from or towards attending one, it's just a collection of people's stories that HAVE graduated from one.

It's to share their success stories, or not-so-successful, in-fact-I-work-at-Weinershnitzel stories.

 

[This Is Poison]

anytime a career in music is discussed on this forum, everyone gives out very discouraging information. while we all know the music business can be VERY unforgiving and cruel, I have a friend who is only 21, went to CRAS, and is doing really well.

I would absolutely consider this a success story:

this friend of mine knew NOTHING about music beyond what he listened to. he had never played an instrument let alone touched a piece of sound gear. he applied to CRAS, was accepted, and at the age of 21 (less than a year older than myself) is living on his own in vegas as a sound tech for cirque del soleil (I apologize if I've butchered the spelling of that.)

from the information I've gathered on the conservatory, it seems as if it's graduates have a fairly high rate of success...

I believe if you have the drive, work hard, set REALISTIC goals, and truly love what you do, you have a great chance at finding success.

then again, we all have different ideas of what success is.

 

[This Is Poison]

Let me clarify the purpose of this thread.

This thread is to put together in one place those of us who have attended and graduated from a reputable audio production/engineering school.

There are lots of inquiries from young bucks about these schools, so instead of explaining the pro's and con's of each of them, we can just point them here to see for themselves the many benefits of attending such an institution.

This thread isn't for current enrollee's to justify why they have put themselves in debt to follow their dream, or to try to persuade anyone from or towards attending one, it's just a collection of people's stories that HAVE graduated from one.

It's to share their success stories, or not-so-successful, in-fact-I-work-at-Weinershnitzel stories.

I apologize, I read this after I'd already posted my story.
it's just frustrating to always have our dreams shot down, as crazy as they may be sometimes.

 

[ez_willis]

I apologize, I read this after I'd already posted my story..

No worries. Realistically, I am the last person on the board that should place restrictions on thread topics.

 

[ez_willis]

then again, we all have different ideas of what success is.

I think we can all agree that a moderate degree of success is being knee deep in bling and bitches burnin' up the cell.

Yeah?

 

[This Is Poison]

I think we can all agree that a moderate degree of success is being knee deep in bling and bitches burnin' up the cell.

Yeah?

I wouldn't sign for anything less!

 

[bennychico11]

my story...
I'm a Full Sail grad. Proud to say so since I learned a lot there. Not proud to say I owe a shit load of money to the bank....but that's my own fault for not realizing what the payments would be after school School is what you make it. No one there says "every student here will be making 50k+ a year and have gold records by the time they're 30. Every teacher there knows that the school is just a trade school. They teach you the basics and get you out in the work place. The old school mentality of a lot of engineers is "school is stupid, you only learn from working in the real world." Which is true to an extent...but those engineers also don't bother hiring people without experience. There's no time to train a kid who says "I know how to play guitar...can I be a recording engineer?" Especially if that kid lives in a small town in Ohio.

So kids out of school are forced to find schools to teach them this stuff. Of course you could save the money up like many people recommend here and just buy your own gear, but what are you going to get with a few grand? A mackie, a tube mic, some speakers and a computer? Or why not trade in that money for a chance to work on a 96 channel SSL in a nice ass studio with teachers who worked as engineers for 15+ years in the industry?

Anyway, FS has some kick ass gear. I wandered to their site recently and see they've added a full dubbing stage, individual mixing rooms and more.
But don't expect to come out of the school with all the knowledge in the world. What you put into it is what you get out of it. Ignore the idiots who just want to party every night, show up late to class, and think that recording school is where they learn to be a "produca!" Most of those kids will fail out within the first few months when they realize they have to learn how to solder cables or know the signal flow on a Neve console by heart. Remember, it is just a training school. They give you the basics and let you go from there.

Which brings me to my next topic. The reason students from engineering schools get such a bad image is because the way they handle themselves in the real world. No matter if you went to school or taught yourself, if you want to make it in the industry you have to work your ass off. 1) Customer relations is important. 2) listen to the engineer in charge on your first gig. Most guys don't give a crap about your schooling, so don't try and tell him "well the way we did it in school is different." He's been engineering longer than you, shut the hell up.

I did end up getting a post production job a month or so out of school and have been doing that since. During my interview, I really could have made up what school I went to and he would have still hired me on because of the way I carried myself. He walked me into the studio and said, "do you know how to work all this?" and I said yes. That's all he cared about. I have another friend who interviewed at a studio and the owner told him, "this paper telling me about your school means shit. We just installed a new console this week in our studio, do you know how to run it?"

Again, take what you learn at school with a grain of salt. Learn the terms and the basic techniques that they teach you. Then learn more as you graduate. Walk with confidence but listen when spoken to. There's a shit load of information out there.

 

[giraffe]

a cras grad

slowly built my own studio, and now that's what i do.
occasionally still have to pick up a part time job, but every year has been better than the last.

pull up your socks bitches, the field is fuckin crowded to the gills.

get a real skill, do this for the fun of it.