Recording an E.P

  • Thread starter Thread starter Common Dreads
  • Start date Start date
mattr said:
Eh? I don't know where people get this stuff from...
Click to expand...

Eh? Cuz dynamics are less sensitive? You sing into a condenser from a foot away and you gotta get right up into a dynamic? More of a close mic'ed vs a room mic'ed sound? That's always been my impression anyway, is that wrong?
 
suprstar said:
Eh? Cuz dynamics are less sensitive? You sing into a condenser from a foot away and you gotta get right up into a dynamic? More of a close mic'ed vs a room mic'ed sound? That's always been my impression anyway, is that wrong?
Click to expand...

You kind of shot yourself in the foot there. If a source is picked up (by ear, or mic, or whatever) from a foot away, you'll always get more room sound than by close micing no matter whats picking it up. That's just how sound works.

Condensers are more sensitive, yes, but to everything. Not just room tone.

It will be more sensitive to the room sound, but equally more sensitive to the source sound, so the ratio between them (depending on the mic placement) will be the same regardless of whether its a dynamic or a condenser. The difference is made when the polar pattern is changed. Dynamics are generally cardioid, while a lot of condensers can be switched to cardioid, hypercardiod, figure-of-8, omni, etc. By switching it to something like omni, then you're picking up more room sound because you're not rejecting off-axis sounds.
 
does the difference not come with how close you are to the mic?

for example, where you might have to be a foot away from a condenser in a room,,you'd probably get away with being 2 inches away from a dynamic...

i would have thought, given that your voice is the same volume for both,,,you're gona hear less room with your dynamic..


<sorry philbagg, your post came in as i was typing>
 
Yes, the 'difference' comes from the fact that people generally work a lot closer to dynamic microphones than they do with condensers, but to simply say that 'a dynamic picks up less of the room sound' is a broad, misleading and overall untrue statement! You may understand fully and know exactly what you mean when you say that, but others might not and then these kind of 'gems of knowledge' spread and become accepted fact extremely easily.

Whilst you could argue that the characteristics of the mics dictate this style of usage, its still a direct result of the application and not a behaviour of the mic itself; some condensers with good integrated windshields are great for getting close to (particularly small diaphragm ones designed for live use), and equally there is nothing wrong with using a dynamic from a good distance away.

Microphones are simply pressure (or pressure-gradient) transducers, and the main differences between dynamics and condensers stem from the differing masses of the diaphragms as well as diaphragm resonances. In terms of directionality, a cardioid dynamic behaves like a cardioid condenser (after all, the cardioid pattern is being created by exactly the same principles)... if anything, the difference you'd be looking at would be in off-axis frequency response characteristics.
 
so if the poster had said..

suprstar said:
The dynamic wont pick up as much of your bad room acoustics if you use it at close proximity and compare it to a condenser at a greater distance, assuming that both mics have similar polar patterns
Click to expand...


he would have been fine???


:laughings:
 
mattr said:
Yes, the 'difference' comes from the fact that people generally work a lot closer to dynamic microphones than they do with condensers
Click to expand...

...which is usually a case for vocals (among other things), but we are talking mainly about guitars here (I think), in which case it's perfectly fine to put it as close to the grill as you would with a dynamic. Just don't gain it as high.
 
Steenamaroo said:
so if the poster had said..


he would have been fine???


:laughings:
Click to expand...


Yes :)

Though by the same means, comparing any mic at two different distances would return the same result, so there really is no point in such a statement at all :p

But trust me, I'm not being a semantics nazi... there's a huge difference between those two statements.


philbagg said:
...which is usually a case for vocals (among other things), but we are talking mainly about guitars here (I think), in which case it's perfectly fine to put it as close to the grill as you would with a dynamic. Just don't gain it as high.
Click to expand...
Yea, got distracted thinking about vocals for some reason. Close mic'd guitars is a good example where people happily use a condenser just as close to the source as a dynamic though. I'll often chuck a LDC right up against a cab, and I know I'm not alone!
 
i agree that comparing any two mics will return the same result,,,

but if we're talking vocals,,is the point not that most condensers wont let the singer get that close..


@ phil,,i assumed we weren't talking guitar/bass cos yer man recommended a 58, not a 57
 
mattr said:
Yea, got distracted thinking about vocals for some reason. Close mic'd guitars is a good example where people happily use a condenser just as close to the source as a dynamic though. I'll often chuck a LDC right up against a cab, and I know I'm not alone!
Click to expand...

You're not. Did it today :)

Steenamaroo said:
@ phil,,i assumed we weren't talking guitar/bass cos yer man recommended a 58, not a 57
Click to expand...

Why would you assume that? ;)

There's no rules, and they're extremely similar mics. The main difference (and this has been disputed to death) is the capsule. Remove the cap off a 58, and you've got a 57 (YMMV). There's no reason to not use a 58 on a guitar/bass cab, or likewise, not to use a 57 for vocals.
 
philbagg said:
There's no rules, and they're extremely similar mics. The main difference (and this has been disputed to death) is the capsule. Remove the cap off a 58, and you've got a 57 (YMMV). There's no reason to not use a 58 on a guitar/bass cab, or likewise, not to use a 57 for vocals.
Click to expand...

I'm just gona say "i know", and hope that this conversation doesn't develop,lol.....
 
Ya ok I guess youre right, I shoulda added a little something extra to that statement.... The thing is, if I speak into your ear from 1" away vs 1' away, it's a LOT louder. To me, that means the dynamic is hugely less sensitive, and therefor picks up less of ANYTHING - room and reflections, kids playing upstairs, whatever. That's why you gotta get so closed to em. I didn't think an in-depth explanation was necessary, sorry about that..

Let me also add that these are typical singing distances and as such there will of course be exceptions to the rule. Your mileage may vary, and umm, this statement is void where prohibited.. All verbiage stated above is the sole expressed opinion and experience of suprstar studios and is not endorsed by or affiliated with homerecording.com.

Not trying to start shit man, but I think you're being just a wee bit nitpicky.. :)
 
i hope you aint apologising to me!!

i was rockin the boat on purpose cos your statement was challenged!

i "love" the way everyone has to be soooo precise and careful on these forums,,,,just in case! :laughings::laughings::laughings::laughings::laughings:


still,,at least some good info came out of it, and that's the point...
 
Suprstar I'm not recording in that room, I'm using that solely for mixing. I am recording in a much larger room which has my drum kit and everything set up.

And yes it is definitely an Enter Shikari thing haha :)
 
suprstar said:
Ya ok I guess youre right, I shoulda added a little something extra to that statement.... The thing is, if I speak into your ear from 1" away vs 1' away, it's a LOT louder. To me, that means the dynamic is hugely less sensitive, and therefor picks up less of ANYTHING - room and reflections, kids playing upstairs, whatever. That's why you gotta get so closed to em. I didn't think an in-depth explanation was necessary, sorry about that..

Let me also add that these are typical singing distances and as such there will of course be exceptions to the rule. Your mileage may vary, and umm, this statement is void where prohibited.. All verbiage stated above is the sole expressed opinion and experience of suprstar studios and is not endorsed by or affiliated with homerecording.com.

Not trying to start shit man, but I think you're being just a wee bit nitpicky.. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah it would be a lot louder if you were 1" away from my ear rather than a foot away, but if my ear had a gain control like a microphone, I could compensate for that. Therefore, I would be able to control the ratio between dry signal and room tone, without having to worry about the volume. And I'm only being nitpicky because it's true, and we don't want our OP thinking he can't use a condenser at all if he just wants a dry signal :)
 
Common Dreads said:
Guitar

Microphone placement in regards to stack amplifier (Pointing at one cone or in a centralized position).

Volume of amp while recording

EQ tips to make the guitar sound thick and have a nice presence.

Layering, yes/no?
Click to expand...

More than just mic placement is amp settings. From someone who for the most part only records metal:

*Get the amp loud enough to push some air. You don't need to rattle the room though. :lol:
*Don't over do it on the gain. To much= muddy crud. To little= John Mayer.
*Don't scoop the mids. Most guitarists in metal bands do it, don't.
*Good place to start is with a 57 1" from the grill at the point where the dust cap meets the cone.
*If you told me the amp, I would probably have more suggestions. But get the tone from the amp, not a plugin.
*Yes layer, but don't copy and paste. The more layers you intend to do the less gain you should use on each track. Get it dirty, but don't put a bee hive in the tone.

Common Dreads said:
Bass

DI or Miced up.

EQ Tips.
Click to expand...

I have done both at the same time and separatly. Doesn't really matter that much with this genre if you go DI or amp. If you go DI though, I would strongly recommend using an amp simulator or bass pre like the sansamp bass driver DI.

If you want to dirty it up a bit, double the bass line and throw some distortion on it. Drop out the lows on the distorted track and blend with the overall bass track.

Your probably going to want to compress the bass at some point and quite a bit, be it when you mix or when you record. I prefer when it is being recorded, but there really isn't any right or wrong there.

Common Dreads said:
Vocals

Condenser or SM58?

Any tips on recording vocals would be helpful.
Click to expand...

This is the one area were trial and error is your friend. I have had cookie monsters that sounded good in condensers and others where it came out horrible. Same with the dynamic. You just have to try and see. Again, in this genre slamming the vocals with compression works. :)

Common Dreads said:
Synth

DI or miced up
Click to expand...

Both if you can, nothing beats options later. If this is you first time adding synths and you don't play with them live, remember you want to try to keep things from stepping on each other in the mix. Not playing in the same area/octave as the guitars or voice works great.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top