Recording a Drum set tomorrow and i have a choice of these mics. Help

[c+t in b]

The track is a slower ballady singer-songwriter type of track and the kit is a small bebop kit where im removing the front head.

I already have a mic list in mind, but tell me what you guys would use. Im also thinking of doing an ortf for the overheads as well as a spaced pair soo an opinion there would be great

Here is the list of mics

AKG C 409 (2)
AKG C 451 E * (1)
AKG C 535 EB (4)
AKG D 112 (2)
Audio-Technica AT-4041 (2)
Audio-Technica ATM 87R PZM (2)
Audio-Technica ATM 89R (2)
Blueberry Mic * (1)
Bruel & Kjaer 4006 * (1)
Bruel & Kjaer 4007 * (5)
Bruel & Kjaer 4011 * (2)
Electro Voice Cardinal (2)
Earthworks OM-1 * (2)
Earthworks TC-30K * (2)
Earthworks TC-40K * (2)
Electro-Voice N/D 308 (2)
Electro-Voice N/D 408 (2)
Electro-Voice N/D 757 (1)
Electro-Voice RE-20 (1)
Groove Tubes GT55 * (1)
MXL V69 * (1)
Nady RSM-2 (2) *
Neumann KM86 i * (4)
Neumann KMS 105 (1)
Neumann TLM 170 * (2)
Neumann U87 Ai * (2)
Neumann U89 i * (4)
Neumann USM 69 i * (1)
Pearlman TM1 (1) *
Rode NT2000 (1)
Rode NT1A (1)
Rode NT2A (1)
Rode NTK * (1)
Rode NT4 * (1)
Rode K2 * (1)
Rode Classic II * (1)
Royer R-121* (2)
Sennheiser MD-409 (2)
Sennheiser MKH-40 * (2)
Sennheiser MKH-816 * (1)
Shure SM-57 (2)
Shure SM-58 (6)
Shure Beta 56 (1)
Shure Beta 57A (2)
Shure Beta 58A (2)
Shure Beta 87A (1)
Shure Beta 98 (2)
Shure 520 DX (Bullet Mic) (1)
Sony ECM-50 (3)
Yamaha SKRM100 Sub Mic * (1)

AKG : C414 EB (2)
AKG: C451 (2)
AKG : SE5E-10 (2)
Audio Technica: AT-4050/CM5 (2)
Audio-Technica: ATM-31A (3)
Crown: PZM 6-LPB (2)
Electro-Voice: RE-15
Electro-Voice: RE-20 (2)
Electro-Voice: RE-55
Radio Shack: PZM (2)
Sennheiser: MD 421 (3)
Sennheiser: MD 441 (2)
Shure: 565-SD
Shure: Beta 52
Shure: KSM 27
Shure: KSM 44 (2)
Shure: SM-57 (5)
Shure: SM-7B

 

[KineticSound]

Drum Mic Madness Post

Let your ears decide...

 

[jmorris]

First for a bebop i'd leave the front head on, second,with that mic list ( you own them, or your being hired to engineer) you can do a hell of a lot with that list,why you asking usNot to be a jerk mind you,really. But if you bought all those mic you should know how to use them,if you are being hired...and they are someones mic's other than yours...uh, maybe they have hired someone else? Tell us more details please,it sounds a bit weird. I mean its like "hey I have a Neve 8068 and a studer 2",Im doing a big project, how do I start!

 

[c+t in b]

school project.

Im trying to make the kit sound as good as it would on a releasable record. I've recorded before, im not asking for you to walk me through baby steps and techniques. I was just simply asking opinions on what mics you would use given the options

ive recorded this bebop kit before. the front head has to come off.

right now im thinking,

d112 - kick in
re-20/senheisser 421/subkick - kick out (I've never used a sub kick so i dont know if it will work right with the head off)

Snare top - AKG 451 (styrofoam cup surrounding the mic)
Snare Bottom - Sennheisser 441

Hi Hat - AKG 451

Toms - Senheisser 421

Overheads: Neumann U 87 Spaced Pair and AT 4050 ORTF

Room KSM 32

Bass Aguilar DI and Beta 52

Guitar Royer r121 and a neumann u89

 

[jmorris]

first why does 'this"kit have to have the front head off? The bebop stuff I've listened to most times has a very open drum sound, the kick is not clicky or in need of a subkick in any way. No kick "has" to recorded with or without a front head. Its tuning and mic placement and in some cases additional padding in the kick. JMHO. Now, I would ruse the ksm32 for overheads and the u87 for room mics. All other selections are fine. A lot of it is matter of opinion and subjective and its hard to make mic selection not hearing the kit in person but with those choices you'll be ok. Dont go nuts on the kick! Keep it plain and organic. The bigger question is what is the room like? That has a tremendous effect on the sound so that will also figure in. You could do very nice with a re20 for kick, snare keep what you have and just throw up ksm32's for overheads,u87's for room and calll it a night....this is assuming you have decent room. Sometimes less is more.

 

[RAMI]

d112 - kick in
re-20/senheisser 421/subkick - kick out (I've never used a sub kick so i dont know if it will work right with the head off)

Snare top - AKG 451 (styrofoam cup surrounding the mic)
Snare Bottom - Sennheisser 441

Hi Hat - AKG 451

Toms - Senheisser 421

Overheads: Neumann U 87 Spaced Pair and AT 4050 ORTF

Room KSM 32

Overkill.

But good luck.

 

[jmorris]

Yeah Rami..ditto

 

[c+t in b]

the rooms in my school are horribly dead. i usually use room mics but never wind up using them

i've done a project with this kit before. we kept the head on, tuned it and used great mics and it was borderline unusable in the end.

ftr its not a bebop track, its just the type of kit the drummer i bringing.

also i know i listed a lot of mics for one part of the kit with slashes up there. Except for the overheads i dont plan on using all of them, just one out of each category. I've used earthworks tc-40s in the past for overheads but i think i can do better with an ortf with the audio technicas or a spaced pair with the neumanns

 

[jmorris]

this is making a little more sense now. I'd take a dead room over a shitty room anyday. "room" mic will still work but you'll capture more of a distant sound of the drums rather than a "room" sound. If you cant get a good sound out of the kic ( with head on)then it is NOT tunned properly. Loosen beater head and tighten front head to add ring desired. Unless it's a total piece of shit kick with absolute shit heads it can be made to sound good. My guess is it is really not tunned proper.

 

[guitarboi89]

I like 4011's for overhead, i usually do a recorderman thing but on a session yesterday i did a spaced pair and was pretty happy.
Kick - Re20 inside (again tuning of the kick will be very important esp if its closed)
Snare - Sm57 will do the job fine, but the 441 (if you can fit it in!) has really good rejection being hypercardioid. A 414 on the bottom is a good idea, you may not use it but it can come in really handy.

Toms - 57's or 421's or .... pretty much anything, you can try LD condensors if you trust the drummer (i mean really trust)

I havent used them, but i would be inclined to have the R121's in Blumline (sp) in front of the kit, positioned to get more drums than cymbals, which you could send to a convolution reverb if the room is really as dead as you say (i find "dead" rooms are often more boxy than non reflective)

Anyways, thats what i would start off with, the mic collection is pretty good so have fun, and seeing as its a school project try every that comes to mind as you wont likely have many opportunities like this.

P.S unless i messed up the overheads, or the drummer has awful balance (your screwed anyway at this point) i rarely use more than the overheads, snare top and kick in during mixing.

 

[LemonTree]

You're either having a laugh or really need to reconsider your day job. You just don't get a mic locker like that to play with unless you know exactly what you're doing or just happen to be the luckiest man on the planet.

 

[jmorris]

Lemontree
that was kind of my point.....something looked off. What school is this?

 

[c+t in b]

the Lee Berk school of music

anyways so i recorded last night. On the kick i went with a d112 and an re20

i recorded the two sets of overheads but i think i prefer the ortf with a pair of 4011's. it sounds way more realistic than any spaced pair of overheads i've ever used. The Neumanns sounded nice in the studio but i think theyre too thin in comparison to the 4011's

i think everything else was the same and the drums sound killer. Probabaly one of the best sets i've recorded.

Oh and the drummer had a new head on the kick with an exposed hole for micing so there was no need to remove it

 

[NYMorningstar]

the Lee Berk school of music

How can you tell when c+t in b is lying?

























His lips are moving

 

[c+t in b]

wow, that was a pretty clever message board flame.

anyways. i go to school for this stuff, but as most of you probably know, you learn much more on your own than you do in school. A lot of what i've learned about concerning mic techniques/mixing has come from books. A lot of signal flow and console knowledge has come from school.

I just started this thread to ask opinions on microphones you guys would use. i can upload part of the track sometime this week if you want to hear how it came out

it was just a basics session for an a song that i'm producing this semester

 

[LemonTree]

How can you tell when c+t in b is lying?


His lips are moving

Nope!

"
and the drummer had a new head on the kick with an exposed hole for micing so there was no need to remove it "

he got an RE20 AND a D112 in the sound hole on a ported front skin

 

[c+t in b]

not quite

d112 for the beater. RE-20 just at the point where the shockwave dissappeared outside of the hole