Recording a band...Drums first?

I've had this exact same experience and done the exact same solution a billion times. It's exhausting. What is up with people and not being able to play with a metronome? I feel like I'm recording retards.

jmxdrummer said:
today I had a screamo band in my studio. after several attempts we couldn't finish one single song. I was ready to kick them out of studio. They dont know how to play to a click track. One of the band members, suggested recording the drums first. I fucking laughed at the idea. They insisted so what I did, I patch the guitarist into the mixing board and recorded the drums. Drummer was playing to the guitarist playing thru the mixer. After that I miked the guitar amp and recorded the guitar tracks after, then bass, and vocals. I couldn't beleive it. Recording drums first fucking worked. has any one ever experience this in the studio? I normally wont put up with this crap, but I could shure use the income.

LESSON FOR TODAY, LEARN TO PLAY TO A FUCKING CLICK TRACK!!!!!!!


SCREAMO SUCKS SHIT
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There are a lot of great comments here.
I think every situation is different so you can not say it has to be done this way. I think half of the fun is the problem solving. jonnyc, great advice on thinking about making the band comfortable. I don't think I could add to that. Meter is definatly important to any musician. I have heard some pro CD's with bad tempo as of late.(I think that only musicians will notice these things) I don't agree that drums are a must to record first it depends on the musicians. I know of some drummers that prefer to play to the finished band tracks instead of a click. What ever works. I don't think that click tracks kill feeling in a recording only lack of inspiration. :)
 
here's the deal.... drummers have been recording without clicks for years and years and to suggest that not recording with one is a bad idea is irresponsible. if the drummer can do it and wants to do it then ok. but if a drummer is use to not using one when he practices with his band and doesnt want to use one recording then what you should do is record the drummer with a scratch guitar track.....but it is a must that you have the guitar player in the same room as the drummer. it's the vibe that a band get when together is what keeps them in a groove. thats right i said groove, thats whats important.
 
Its true that some drummers operate like that and that is what makes studios alot of money. Now some drummers have great meter and can record great tracks without a click track. I know of a studio that looks forward to bands with bad drummers. One band they recorded cost them $3000 for one song. The band fired the drummer after that.
 
I've had the pleasure to record some 800 bands since the early nineties and less than 10 recorded to a clicktrack because they insisted. And the majority of these less than 10 bands screw up the feel/groove because of that damn click.

If you can't swim don't even try, because you will drown for sure.

My way of recording is the whole band at once in a fairly big room, bands rehearse alltogether, they gig alltogether, so they should record the way they are used to, period.

Think like a musician and learn to record like a musician, try to make them happy, recording in a studio is fun.
And learn to deal with bleed, bleed is your friend if you know it well enough.

And now: go and record some music.
 
If the drummer is pretty steady I don't use a click. I'd hate to kill any sublte time changes the band may like to introduce. I always record drums first. If the drum track is off even a tiny bit everything else will suffer.
 
Han, could you tell us how to use bleed for advantage?
I just can´t imagine what could it be good for.
 
kubeek said:
Han, could you tell us how to use bleed for advantage?
I just can´t imagine what could it be good for.
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Super or hyper cardioid microphones of great quality (ribbons), with a very nice off axis response (so forget about the SM57's), a good sounding big tracking room, a band with a balanced soundlevel and most of all the placement of the mics.

If the drummer is very loud, the bass and guitars must be very loud as well. And even while tracking a loud band in the same room I use a stereo pair of room mics to create liveness.

One tip: put a pair of decent mics in ORTF in front of the drumkit, but facing the opposite wall, the backside of the mics towards the kit. You'll be amazed.
 
Han said:
My way of recording is the whole band at once in a fairly big room, bands rehearse alltogether, they gig alltogether, so they should record the way they are used to, period.

Think like a musician and learn to record like a musician, try to make them happy, recording in a studio is fun.
And learn to deal with bleed, bleed is your friend if you know it well enough.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear! My thoughts exactly, but do bear in mind that nothing I do is "industry standard."

Regarding bleed, high quality omni mikes often have excellent off-axis response, too.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Most of the bands I have seen recording to a click are pretty technical and tight. They seem to groove pretty good to a click. Bands like Dream Theater, Rush and Megadeth. It's cool if you can do without but people like myself need help to keep time. ;)
 
whatever happened to the days where an entire band would be recorded all at once like Zeppelin for instance..it just comes out more natural and also if you record a band to sound absolutely flawless on a record but they suck live they dont even deserve to be recorded..thats why i stick to rap i have full control over my beats and work with people (rappers) over the internet like it aint no thang! my 2 cents :cool:
 
jmxdrummer said:
today I had a screamo band in my studio. after several attempts we couldn't finish one single song. I was ready to kick them out of studio. They dont know how to play to a click track.
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OK, so maybe this is slightly on the edge of the topic, but I find I keep much better time if I'm playing solo (or even in a group) if I remember what my French horn teacher taught me back in fourth grade and tap my foot while I play (assuming I'm not playing drums, where tapping to the beat may be a wrong note!).

Cheers,

Otto
 
Whatever happened to the days when groups like Led Zeppelin
recorded together in a big room? Those days are mostly gone, reason
number one being the home studio. There was an article in Mix magazine
a few months ago about the studio business--and how business aint so
good right now. The woman who the magazine interviewed, a studio owner/operator, made a good case for doing the recording the "old-fashioned way," that is, everyone in the studio, the drummer "boothed off" and the other musicians in their own rooms as well, glass everywhere so everybody can see everyone else. Do you have a set-up like this at home? Modern recording techniques (clicks, recording one at a time) have been in use for a while, but they are the norm for people like me, and probably most everyone who comes to these sites--the big studio is out of reach, money-wise.
I would love to track our group together; in fact, we have, mixing down
the signals to stereo during rehearsal and practice. Our drummer loves this,
but he also insists that when we do the "real recording" we (meaning me and the other guitarist, as well as himself) record to a click. So, I take a drum
track from an SR-16 that I prepare, record an acoustic guitar to it, add a vocal (if its my song; other wise, the other player does it, though I always program the "click"), and then the drummer plays along to that. Guess what?
He played better when the other guitarist simply played an acoustic guitar
with no click first--the click was the guitarist's own internal clock, which was off, of course, but after just one run through, the drummer, bitterly complaining all the way ("This is not how you do it, I have friends who will tell you, you're gonna hear that the timing's off . . . .") pretty much nailed it.
Me? I prefer using the click, recording the guitar and vocal scratch, and then the drummer plays. The click? Always an actual drum sound; with the availability of machines, why use a horrible mechanized metronome click?
So:
1. You can do it many different ways;
2. Some people can play to a click, and some can't, and it has
nothing to do with musical ability;
3. Sometimes the music being recorded doesn't lend itself
to certain recording techniques;
4. The person doing the actual recording must be a diplomat.
 
cephus said:
Alot of drummers play differently when they are playing to an external clock. I'm not talking tempo. I'm talking inspirato. Like they are better drummers when you let them be drummers, but play like pussies when they have to play to a track.
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This is me!
As a band we can play well together with a basic good timing.
I say this because there are seven of us and it shows up in spades when there are that many folks (including a percussionist). But listening to a click track focuses all my energy in nailing the beep rather than the song.
Do I record to a click? yes all the time! it makes it tons easier when it comes to edits and cutting and pasting parts, but I enjoy it when I dont HAVE to record to a click.
 
jmxdrummer said:
They dont know how to play to a click track. One of the band members, suggested recording the drums first. I fucking laughed at the idea. They insisted so what I did, I patch the guitarist into the mixing board and recorded the drums.
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Surely someone with the handle Jmxdrummer would realise that drums come first? seriously your a drummer!

on the click front i use it two ways as my drummer is in a different location. so i set up a click write the track to the click, get Darren to record his drums to my click recorded track and then delete my tracks. I re-do them to the real drums as otherwise it sounds sloppy as shit!

think about it who would have better timing a drummer or a guitarist? do you want the entire track to be clocked by someone who's rhythm is sloppy or tight? i know i would rather have the drummer do it!

once the drums are down i get rid of the click, bar the count ins on breaks which i turn it on for, just to know when i come in!

and seriously the hostility let it die man!
 
Drums first? Sure! Why not? That is almost always my 'preferred' method when I am the one directing the development of a song.

Re: Metronome/Click-track = Good/Bad?

I am a bass player and I practice with a metronome. I also practice with a drum machine. Why? Because IF I have to go into the studio for someone and they say to me, "Here, lay down your part. There are no other parts laid yet so work with this click-track" then I won't be all, "Uh, aww man... metronomes suck! Music recorded using a click-track is cold and has no feeling..." Nope - I will just say, "Fire it up - let's get this track laid, baby!"

Also - the reason I always use a metronome when I am practicing scales, arpeggios, and other technical exercises is because without that good old metronome keeping you honest, you really cannot tell if you are 'slopping it up' even if it is only a little bit.

When you use the 'nome', you very quickly become aware of the parts of your current exercise that are not nailed down. That bothers some folks. They will say, "I can nail it if you just turn off that metronome!" - That just cracks me up. That is no different than saying, "I can nail it if you just let me do it a little wrong!"

And yes, they are the same ones who are convinced that it's the metronome's fault that they don't have a solid concept of time. That when the metronome is on, it "messes them up". On the contrary - they are messing up all the time - they just don't know it and the metronome shows them something about their playing that they would rather not see. Continuing under the delusion that you are a rock god with perfect time is a nice feeling! Can you blame them feeling pissed when a stupid little machine shows them the error of their ways? LOL

Finally - there are plenty of examples on both sides of the metronome/click-track fence and they are equally right. There are plenty of examples of rock 'n' roll veteran groups whose songs' time fluctuates all over the place (no click) and yet their music is highly regarded by all.

So does using a click/metronome add or subtract from the end result?

Depends...

Embracing absolutes like "Always record the drums first" and "Always use a click-track" are the mistakes. Do what works to get the song in the can.
 
Just record them in the room playing together. When it comes time to track things, you can feed them the stereo track instead of a click.
 
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