Recording 101

D

dannoman

New member
I've been recording on my BR8 for a few years...and I just cannot get a sound that I like. For mics I use a SM57,MXL2003, and MKL603...usually use the 603 for guitar and the 2003 for vocals. Blue Tube mic pre and compressor. I prefer to record vocal and guitar simultaneously, but usually don't like the result. Any tricks for recording vocal/guitar simultaneously? I hear other home recordings that sound so clear and bell-like using cheap soundcards...is there that big of a difference, quality-wise, between a DAW and a PC based recorder? Here's a rough cut of my last tune. Any and all feedback appreciated.

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?play=427382&T=9481

Danno
 
Holy Hiss. That has to be one of the most noisey recording's I've ever heard. You're pretty talented though. The guitar just seems much too distant, my personal taste is to have it much more upfront and intimate kind of how your vocals are. Are you dialing in a lot of the "tube" part of your presonus? If so, STOP, it doesn't do anything more than add noise which you definately don't need more of. Don't let anything under 400 bucks with a "toob" fool you into thinking you're going to get "warm" sound. You'd probably be better of with a dmp3 and an fmr rnc. By the way, what's a br8? Oh and yes, a cheap soundcard(99 dollars or so) meant for recording(and that's the key part) and a free program like Audacity(that's free right?) can yield pretty darn good results in the right hands. Can you give more info into how you're setting up your mics and so on?
 
I actually like how the strumming guitars tone came out, (or maybe its the chord progression, cuz I'm lovin' that) but as jonnyc said, very very noisy and distant.

Maybe if you could elaborate a little bit on your recording process...
 
You have a good voice.

What's the recording room like?

You're using mikes that emphasize anything harsh in the sound.

If you are committed to doing gtr and vocal together in one take, the simplest thing is to put a pair of flat-frequency-response mikes a couple feet out, in any stereo config that suits the mic pattern used. You can even do it with a single mike. But you've got to have a room with no reflection problems to get a good sound doing that.
 
scorpio01169 said:
on your acoustic guitar if you can run your guitar direct and mic the fret board with a sdc and the hole (off axis ) with a ldc on the hole....start with the mic's then bring up the direct
Click to expand...

Agreed. The guitar can be improved with better mic positioning I think. The vocal sounds much better than the guitar, but needs some EQ treatment. Roll off some of the low-mid's from the vocal. Just my $0.02.
 
Thanks for the replies....much appreciated. Here's a link to the BR8 that I use....records to a 250MB zip drive.

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/en/BR-8/

Would it be a drastic step up to go with a decent sound card and install in my HP home PC. I bought a copy of ntracks to use for mixing tracks imported from my BR8, but never got a good result. I love to write tunes....I just don't enjoy the engineering part of it....I suck at it. In the right hands, I think I could put together some pretty tasty tunes, but my lack of recording prowess really makes it hard. Typically, I use my SDC(603) pointed at around the 14th fret a couple feet in front. For vocals I use my LDC(2003)....I've never gotten a good result recording guitar with the LDC. My room is a 10 x10 basement office with no acoustic treatment....regular drywall. I don't expect a pro quality sound, but man, I hear these guys that are plugged straight into their PC that have sound quality a hundred times better than mine. Maybe I should think about buying a sound card and giving it a shot...suggestions? I want to keep it as simple as possible.....I really only need to record a couple guitar tracks, a couple vocal tracks, and maybe a string track....nothing too complicated.

Danno
 
dannoman said:
Typically, I use my SDC(603) pointed at around the 14th fret a couple feet in front.
Click to expand...

That's probably where all the noise is coming from... With your (only) mic so far away from the source, its not picking up as much as is desired. To compensate you have to turn the gain up, or the level up later on, and in doing so you also turn up EVERYTHING on that specific track, i.e. noise.


That's a good starting point as far as the fret goes, but the distance is the problem IMO. Play around with the distance a bit... Start out with a foot, and gradually work your way in closer to taste.
 
I've used a 603 through a Blue Tube pre. If you keep the tube circuit turned all the way down you won't have a noise problem at a mike distance of 2 ft. I rarely put a gtr mike closer than 2 ft. Don't use a compressor while recording ac gtr. Just set your levels carefully.

A 10x10 untreated room is going to cause lots of recording problems. Treat your room. Lots of info here in the Studio Building forum and elsewhere.
 
I messed around a little tonight and got a lot better result with some of your suggestions. Basically turned the 'drive' down all the way and used just enough 'gain' to get a nice level. Someone else at another forum told me to take the compressor out of the chain, so my current signal chain is mic>>BT mic pre>>BR8 recorder.......and really the only thing that I'm using the mic pre for is the phantom power, and just a little gain. Now I'm wondering why I bought them. :D I'll try to put something together and post within the next few days. Thanks again.

Danno
 
Man, that is a butt load of compression (no offense). I would try to use ALOT less and think about exactly what you're trying to achieve with it in the first place. I don't know what your machine's capabilities are but if it's possible, I'd try to do the majority of your volume leveling with a volume control, volume envelope, what ever you have. That compression is squeezing all the air out of your recording and probably bringing up the noise level of the room. The guy at the other forum was telling you right.
 
Good suggestions, guys and no offense ever taken....I appreciate honest feedback. Gummble....I tried your suggestion, but I do get bleed over between tracks. Another thing....I have no love at all for the SM57...just not the mic for me...always sounds muddy. I'm really tempted to go buy a cheap soundcard like the m-audio 24/96 and try using n-tracks again. I really don't like any of the effects on the BR-8......I'm thinking that a PC based recording console will give me more flexibility. I may give it a shot.
 
A practical approach is to track on a stand-alone recorder and then move files to a computer for mixing and processing.
 
dannoman said:
I've been recording on my BR8 for a few years...and I just cannot get a sound that I like. For mics I use a SM57,MXL2003, and MKL603...usually use the 603 for guitar and the 2003 for vocals. Blue Tube mic pre and compressor. I prefer to record vocal and guitar simultaneously, but usually don't like the result. Any tricks for recording vocal/guitar simultaneously? I hear other home recordings that sound so clear and bell-like using cheap soundcards...is there that big of a difference, quality-wise, between a DAW and a PC based recorder? Here's a rough cut of my last tune. Any and all feedback appreciated.

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?play=427382&T=9481

Danno
Click to expand...
I didnt listen to the clip, but the guy that responded first to your post said it was very noisy so...
I have the BR1180CD which Ive had for about 5 years or so now. The pre amps are fekin awfull. They create noise, they crackle even wen not anywhere near peak point.

I dont like it for even half serious recording. I use it to write tunes and practice to a click track. Not for real recording.
Althoug it cost me a fair whack at the time. It was about $1,500 when I got it, when it just came out.

Bah! And to top it off. My Hardrive wiped itself of ALL my work a few months ago. I had like 80 tracks on there and some of them were definetly worth keeping. Now GONE! :(

Eck
 
dannoman said:
Thanks for the replies....much appreciated. Here's a link to the BR8 that I use....records to a 250MB zip drive.

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/en/BR-8/

Would it be a drastic step up to go with a decent sound card and install in my HP home PC. I bought a copy of ntracks to use for mixing tracks imported from my BR8, but never got a good result. I love to write tunes....I just don't enjoy the engineering part of it....I suck at it. In the right hands, I think I could put together some pretty tasty tunes, but my lack of recording prowess really makes it hard. Typically, I use my SDC(603) pointed at around the 14th fret a couple feet in front. For vocals I use my LDC(2003)....I've never gotten a good result recording guitar with the LDC. My room is a 10 x10 basement office with no acoustic treatment....regular drywall. I don't expect a pro quality sound, but man, I hear these guys that are plugged straight into their PC that have sound quality a hundred times better than mine. Maybe I should think about buying a sound card and giving it a shot...suggestions? I want to keep it as simple as possible.....I really only need to record a couple guitar tracks, a couple vocal tracks, and maybe a string track....nothing too complicated.

Danno
Click to expand...
If your serious about your music and you feel you have the talent to bring out something a bit special then maybe you could go book a few days ina studio and learn as much from the engineer as possible.
Take your own amp n guitar n mics in and see what he can do with your equipment on his recording equipment.

Eck
 
Did a little more experimenting tonight. Got some pretty clean guitar takes using the 603 with no 'drive' and very little 'gain'. When I recorded my vocal track, I tried using the MXL2003(LDC)....but I could not get a clean take. I thought I had a bad mic cable from all the noise I was hearing, but I tried two others and got the same thing when the room was dead silent. I'm starting to think the mic has a problem. I then decided to give the SM57 a shot, but soon found that it required alot of 'gain' to get the desired db level....which translates to more noise. I then tried my 603.....I know, I know, the 603 is not a vocal mic....but I got to tell you, it sounded much better than the other two mics. I'll try to post something here soon. Thanks again for the ideas.

Danno
 
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dannoman said:
Did a little more experimenting tonight. Got some pretty clean guitar takes using the 603 with no 'drive' and very little 'gain'. When I recorded my vocal track, I tried using the MXL2003(LDC)....but I could not get a clean take. I thought I had a bad mic cable from all the noise I was hearing, but I tried two others and got the same thing when the room was dead silent. I'm starting to think the mic has a problem. I then decided to give the SM57 a shot, but soon found that it required alot of 'gain' to get the desired db level....which translates to more noise. I then tried my 603.....I know, I know, the 603 is not a vocal mic....but I got to tell you, it sounded much better than the other two mics. I'll try to post something here soon. Thanks again for the ideas.

Danno
Click to expand...

Tip 'o the day. Any mic is a vocal mic, I've used an Audix D6(kick mic) on vocals with great success. I'm teaching my little brother some engineering stuff and the one rule I keep stressing is don't be afraid to try anything.
 
dannoman said:
Did a little more experimenting tonight. Got some pretty clean guitar takes using the 603 with no 'drive' and very little 'gain'. When I recorded my vocal track, I tried using the MXL2003(LDC)....but I could not get a clean take. I thought I had a bad mic cable from all the noise I was hearing, but I tried two others and got the same thing when the room was dead silent. I'm starting to think the mic has a problem. I then decided to give the SM57 a shot, but soon found that it required alot of 'gain' to get the desired db level....which translates to more noise. I then tried my 603.....I know, I know, the 603 is not a vocal mic....but I got to tell you, it sounded much better than the other two mics. I'll try to post something here soon. Thanks again for the ideas.

Danno
Click to expand...
Way to go. Keep up the experimenting. Question everything.
 
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