Recommendations for simple home recording set-up

[jrmcanada]

Hello,

I'm brand new to this, so please bear with me.

I would like to set up a simple home recording system and I've managed to find some good advice online, but there are some specific requirements that I don't know how to implement. I'll outline what I'm looking for:

• Two-track recording. I have a Yamaha CP300 and would normally want to record it along with a vocal mic. However, I also want to be able to record guitar and a vocal track (without the Yamaha).
• Speakers (are these called studio monitors?) for the CP300/vocals (or guitar/vocals).
• The ability to record the two channels separately for DAW mixing afterwards. If I have to, I can record into my laptop, but I'd really prefer to record into something smaller - like an iPhone or iPad or some other multi-track recording device.

This is purely for my own enjoyment, so I'm not looking for a professional setup. At the same time, it doesn't have to be bargain basement, either.

I've seen some articles that say I need to get microphones, an audio interface, Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) software, and studio monitors. But I have a few questions about this:

1. Will this amplify the microphone so that the vocals coming out of the speakers aren't overpowered by the keyboard?
2. What audio interface best meets the needs I outlined above?
3. What audio interface would you recommend if I want to record three or four tracks instead of two?
4. In this scenario, what device do I record onto? Or am I stuck with using my laptop for recording?

Thanks in advance!

James

 

[BroKen_H]

1) yes, but you'll want to turn the speakers off when you record (use headphones)
2) MOST. M-Audio, Scarlett, PreSonus, Tascam, etc.
3) Pick one of the above that has 4 preamps. One that gets a lot of recommendation around here is the Native Instruments KA6.
4) The audio interface replaces whatever soundcard you're using. You run audio in through the individual channels to your DAW, you run audio out through the studio monitors.

Add to your list a good set of closed back headphones for tracking your vocals with the speakers off.
Don't forget to get adequate room treatment so the room noise doesn't pick up in your mikes. Even more if you want to mix in the room...

 

[jrmcanada]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick response. I just have a few more questions.

1. My understanding is that I plug the mics and instruments into the inputs of the audio interface and then the headphones, monitors, and computer are plugged into the outputs. Is that correct?

2. Where does the power come from to amplify the mics?

3. I see the Native Instruments KA6 is USB-powered. Does that mean I have to have it plugged into my computer for it to work or is there a way to power it without the computer? I ask because 95% of the time, I'm going to be using this setup without recording - I just want to have the instruments and mics get pumped out the speakers - and I don't want to have hook up my laptop every time. I just want to use the laptop when I'm recording.

4. When I am recording, am I correct in thinking that the only cable between the Native Instruments KA6 and the computer is a USB cable and that will allow me to treat all four tracks separately in my DAW?

Thanks again!

James

 

[BroKen_H]

1) all correct except: The computer connects via USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt depending on the interface.
2) the USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt provides the power for the interface (or external power supply, depending on what you get) which provides 48v Phantom for your condenser mikes.
3) Yes and no. You can plug the USB cable into a USB charging port and it will work. No need for turning on the computer.
4) Yes. 4 in 4 out + S/PDIF running through the USB cable at very low latency.

Mike into channel 1, guitar into channel 2, stereo out from the keyboard into 3/4 in the back (no gain, but you can control that from the keyboard, or just compensate with the gain controls)...
Dave actually owns this unit. I considered it (and sometimes wish I'd gotten it), but got a rack mount unit to get it off my desk instead.

 

[BroKen_H]

Dave is ecc83 (user name). I PM'd him to check this thread and give some REAL answers and not what I'm remembering from putting my hands on it at GC and what I've read.

 

[ecc83]

Hi Ken,
Got your PM thanks, always nice to hear from a body!

No Bro! If I understand you and the OP correctly, you cannot just power the KA6 from any USB 5V source, it HAS to talk to a computer. This the usual situation with most USB AIs, even those that NEED a separate power supply like my Focusrite 8i6 (Tho' I think that will run some functions "stand alone"?)

Even those USB and older Fussywire devices that could run SA had to be setup initially on a PC and even then, certain functions, 48V, gains and others sometimes needed to be set from the PC.

I think the OP will have to look at much more costly AIs to get one with comprehensive off PC capability but someone here might know better? If he REALLY wants this laptop free functionality the obvious, cheapest path is a mixer and I can certainly recommend my Allen & Heath ZED 10FX. He will then of course be looking for an interface to talk to the PC and there is no better for the money than the KA6!

My zed10 does have USB output and unlike many of the cheaper USB mixer about it is a very good USB converter. There is the 16bit limit but ion practice, for the probably intended use of such a mixer, on a small band say, 16 bits is quite good enough. No, the problem with all USB mixers is that they lack the functionality of an AI for home recording i.e. track building. CAN be done I guess but not as easily.

Hope this helps (done at 7:43 here, only one cup of Joe down me. Like get onto the PCs before 'er indoors gets up!)

Oh! And of course (must keep the H Horse exercised!( no MIDI on a mixer!
Dave.

 

[Raz Klinghoffer]

I got a used pair of M-audio BX5 for $35 and I use them as reference monitors, they're great
Check out the new Alpha series (Focal)

Get a strong PC (or Mac) , so you won't be limited by proccessing power

---------- Update ----------

I got a used pair of M-audio BX5 for $35 and I use them as reference monitors, they're great
Check out the new Alpha series (Focal)

Get a strong PC (or Mac) , so you won't be limited by proccessing power

 

[jrmcanada]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the response. I'm new enough to this that I don't understand all the terminology so please forgive me if I ask questions that you've already answered.

If I get an Allen & Heath ZED 10FX and run a USB cable from that to my PC, will it allow all of the tracks to be processed separately in the DAW on the PC, or am I just basically getting the mixed track going into the PC? Do I need to also have an AI if I want separate tracks on the PC? If so, how do I hook up the mics and keyboard to both the AI and the mixer?

James

 

[gecko zzed]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the response. I'm new enough to this that I don't understand all the terminology so please forgive me if I ask questions that you've already answered.

If I get an Allen & Heath ZED 10FX and run a USB cable from that to my PC, will it allow all of the tracks to be processed separately in the DAW on the PC, or am I just basically getting the mixed track going into the PC? Do I need to also have an AI if I want separate tracks on the PC? If so, how do I hook up the mics and keyboard to both the AI and the mixer?

James

You have two principal requirements that are not easily satisified, though you would think it should not be so hard.

The first is to hear your mikes and instruments being amplified in a stand-alone way. This is what a small mixer (such as the Zed10) can do for you: instruments and mikes in one end, speakers (or headphones) out the other and you are done.

The second is to be able to record these instruments and mikes so that each can be assigned its own track. This is what a multi-input audio interface can do: again, instruments and mikes into the interface, monitoring speakers out the other end, and USB or Firewire connecting to computer.

You would expect to be able to satisfy these two main requirements with the one device, and sometimes you can. For example, the (now aging) Presonus Firepod was an interface that accepted 10 inputs, allowing ten simultaneous and independent tracks to be recorded, but did not need to be connected to the computer to work, and could function as a standalone mixer. The A&H ZR16 or the Presonus StudioLive were mixers that each could deliver sixteen tracks to a computer and function as a live mixer.

But many of the USB Mixers (such as the Zed10) only deliver two channels to a PC via USB, and many of the current interfaces will not work unless connected.

I would consider the Presonus Audiobox 44vsl. It looks like it will have enough channels for you. It may or may not work in stand-alone mode, but as it accepts a separate power supply (not just via USB) it may well work they way you want.

 

[ecc83]

Geko has outlined the hardware involved most succinctly. I would however caution you on your expectations of a multitrack recording system before you commit the considerable sums to one.

If you expect to get pristine recordings of individual instruments you will be disappointed! Bass for instance will bleed into everything. You can of course DI bass git' but then comes the complication of providing him with his own sound (tech talk "fold back") . You can't DI live drums and they too will spill all over the shop.

Then, think of this.. What you hear of a band FOH is the integrated whole. Indeed many bands put everything thru a mixer and PA it. All you need in theory is a tap into the PA feed!

In practices a simple 2 channel feed will lack "something" and a few spot mics will be needed (dunno why I am doing this! Others here have VASTLY more experience than this old dog!) but in the end everything goes out on 2 channels.

The KA6 (say) could take the 2 ch output of a mixer (or PA feed) but still leave you two more mic/line/instr inputs to play with.

The actual GOOD takes in the can for simple setups are perhaps 25% of total "messin'" time? I would guess this percentage drops as at least the square of the number of tracks?

Dave.

 

[Xcaliber]

Good advice from the others in this thread as always, but something keeps popping out at me from your original post. I have two questions:

1. Are you going to record electric guitar or acoustic? (sorry if I missed that somewhere)
2. Would you rather just record on an iPad and forget the laptop altogether?

Presonus makes audio interfaces now that can record directly into an iPad/iPhone, the Audiobox iTwo is a two channel interface that can record directly into an iPad, but only 2 channels. It comes with software for the iPad, but can also be used with the PC and comes with Studio One Artist edition if you decide to switch to the PC. It is powered through USB on either the PC/Mac or iDevice so you don't need to plug it in. You can also plug 2 mics or a mic and DI an instrument (like electric guitar or bass).

I haven't used this interface, but I have an Audiobox USB that I used before I got my rack mount AI and it worked well for me. Presonus makes pretty good stuff especially for someone just starting out.

 

[ecc83]

Hang on a cotton pikkin'...The title of this thread alludes to a SIMPLE home recording setup!

HTF have we got into multi-track swaddling? And if you go "iThing OP, you will lose me!

(now, where DID I put those thorn needles???)

Dave.

 

[mjbphotos]

I think your DAW options are somewhat limited on an iDevice, too, due to processing power.

Also - mics + instruments "live" through your monitors - this is an equation for feedback. If you turn the monitors down enough that feedback doesn't occur, you probably won't hear them very well. That's what headphones are for (in the studio).

 

[gecko zzed]

Hang on a cotton pikkin'...The title of this thread alludes to a SIMPLE home recording setup!

HTF have we got into multi-track swaddling? And if you go "iThing OP, you will lose me!

(now, where DID I put those thorn needles???)

Dave.

We've got to multi-track because, although OP states original two-channel recording (keyboard + vocal or guitar + vocal), I'm thinking that that will soon become extremely limiting, specially when I note most keyboards have a stereo out which would be a shame to lose.

If two track really is satisfactory, then any small USB mixer will be fine.

 

[BroKen_H]

Right. Dave put away the curare...
Okay. I like being wrong if I learn something. Can't run USB units (for the most part) as standalone. Got it.
BUT. The new Yamaha AG series, from what I've seen and read, works PC/Mac/iOS; acts as an audio interface, and can be used as a stand alone mixer.
Available in 3 or 6 channel. The AG06 is only $200. Might be worth a trip to your local GC or Sam Ash to put your hands on one and see. Both have 14 day return policies, so no loss if it doesn't do what you want.

 

[Xcaliber]

I think your DAW options are somewhat limited on an iDevice, too, due to processing power.

I agree. GarageBand on iOS works pretty well though and has some really nice options for virtual instruments. They even have a way you can have them play a pre-recorded loop and change it up between a few variations. The drum machine is awesome for playing with random beats. It's a neat toy to play with, but if you're serious about home recording you need a computer and a "proper" DAW, I definitely agree.

I was just giving the OP more options since he specifically mentioned using and iPhone or iPad at times.

 

[mjbphotos]

Right. Dave put away the curare...
Okay. I like being wrong if I learn something. Can't run USB units (for the most part) as standalone. Got it.
BUT. The new Yamaha AG series, from what I've seen and read, works PC/Mac/iOS; acts as an audio interface, and can be used as a stand alone mixer.
Available in 3 or 6 channel. The AG06 is only $200. Might be worth a trip to your local GC or Sam Ash to put your hands on one and see. Both have 14 day return policies, so no loss if it doesn't do what you want.

But the Yammie AG06 is only a 2-out (2 simultaneous tracks) USB device.

 

[jrmcanada]

This is all very helpful. Thanks!

I just realized that what I can do is run everything through the mixer for the 95% of the time I just want the sound amped, and then replace the mixer with the AI on the rare occasions I want to record. I don't mind moving my laptop for those occasions - I just wanted to avoid having to move it every time I wanted to play piano.

Also, I'm not worried about complete isolation of individual instruments. We recorded a CD a few years ago with a Fostex multitrack recorder and four microphones. Since the singers and instruments were all in the same room, there was sound bleeding on each track. But not enough to interfere with our humble needs.

In response to some other questions, I'm using acoustic guitar. Also, I was just thinking of recording to the iPad and doing the DAW on a PC. (My only reason for that was to have a smaller device for recording. But since I won't be recording very often, I don't mind moving my laptop for that.)

Thanks everyone for the help. Any recommendations for decent monitors (I'm not looking for big ones ... most of the time they'll be used in my rec room) and microphones (for vocals and guitar)?

One last question: any recommendation for good headphones for this? I have some Bose QuietComfort 25 noise-cancelling headphones will they work well?

 

[ecc83]

You say "the" mixer, does that mean you already have one?

If so and you run part of the band through it you have cracked most of the recording issues. And you don't need to "replace" the mixer with an AI just feed the mixer main outs to line ins on an AI.

I shall leave others to suggest mics and cans and as for monitors, a budget is the first step.

Dave.

 

[BroKen_H]

But the Yammie AG06 is only a 2-out (2 simultaneous tracks) USB device.

That's awful. The video I watched made it sound like it was a full audio interface (i.e. 6 tracks in/2 back out)... Darned marketing. Thing's no different than every other USB mixer...