Reason to Rhyme - any feedback appreciated

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maxmax77

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Hi everyone,

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Any and all thoughts on the mix would be appreciated. I’m replacing the bassline in the second chorus, too much going on I think. Drums are just Logic for now, I’ll record live ones eventually.
 
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One thing I’m wondering is, how do I bring the bass forward without overwhelming the other instruments? It doesn’t feel like it pops enough right now, besides in the outro when I really dig into it.

I’m thinking of trying to use one band of a multiband compressor on the low end to keep it smooth and consistent, and then maybe doing some EQ fiddling with the mids so the bassline pops out more. Is this the right approach? Is there maybe a way to do this without boosting the mids too much and overwhelming the other instruments in the mix?
 
maxmax77 said:
One thing I’m wondering is, how do I bring the bass forward without overwhelming the other instruments? It doesn’t feel like it pops enough right now, besides in the outro when I really dig into it.

I’m thinking of trying to use one band of a multiband compressor on the low end to keep it smooth and consistent, and then maybe doing some EQ fiddling with the mids so the bassline pops out more. Is this the right approach? Is there maybe a way to do this without boosting the mids too much and overwhelming the other instruments in the mix?
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Hiya!

The balance is a bit off, I'd start by turning the vocal down 2 or 3 dB then initially just turn the bass track up, I can barely hear it and it won't overwhelm the other instruments as it's in a different frequency range to everything else in the song. See how it sounds and go from there.

I absolutely disagree with you using 'one band of a multiband compressor on the low end to keep it smooth and consistent'. There is no low end in this song to control (although when you can hear the bass there will be some). If anything I'd be using it to knock down a couple of db in the highs.
 
HumanPlanet said:
Hiya!

The balance is a bit off, I'd start by turning the vocal down 2 or 3 dB then initially just turn the bass track up, I can barely hear it and it won't overwhelm the other instruments as it's in a different frequency range to everything else in the song. See how it sounds and go from there.

I absolutely disagree with you using 'one band of a multiband compressor on the low end to keep it smooth and consistent'. There is no low end in this song to control (although when you can hear the bass there will be some). If anything I'd be using it to knock down a couple of db in the highs.
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Much appreciated! I’m going to do exactly that, lower the vocal a bit and crank up the bass.

Your comment about the multi and comp on the low end made me chuckle lol. It’s true. I was wondering if the highs are too much right now, I’ll see what I can do to get the electric guitars under control. I think I might have high passed the main acoustic guitar too much as well, and I gave the vocals a bit too much of a high shelf, too. Thanks again!
 
I agree that the biggest problem with the mix are the very dominant main vocals. It's hard to focus on anything else once they start. 😉
But it could turn out nice once this problem is removed.
 


Here's an updated version! I made a bunch of changes..boosted the bass (maybe too much), tried to deal with the problem frequencies in the electric guitars (and a bit with the acoustics), and did a bunch of automation on the main vocal to make it line up better with the levels of the rest of the mix. Once I did all that it still felt a bit too tinny for my liking, so I pulled a few db out of the high mids out of the mix as a whole (around 4k and 1.7k give or take) and reduced the high end overall by about 1db.
 
That's a big improvement over your original mix!

If it were me I might try a bit of gluey compression on the stereo bus (not to much, dialled in by ear) and a decent amount of saturation and see how that sounds.

Overall it's much nicer, it's coming together.
 
I have a RNC, and I’ve been dying to really put it to good use, so this seems like a great opportunity to see how subtle it can get. Thanks for the guidance!

I’ll mess around with saturation too. I’ve been using the Scheps Omni channel for a lot of this and I really dig the saturation that plugin provides!
 
The opening guitar/ rhythm guitar seems a tad boxy or something. The overall mix seems dead centre. All the guitars feel on top of each other in a way. I really like your vocal though. You've got a good voice. Reminds me a bit of the guy from Scottish band Belle and Sebastian.

EDIT: The above comment was for your mix in the opening post. Listening to the updated one....MUCH better. You've backed that rhythm guitar off a bit and generally things are better balanced. Still feels a bit congested all around whatever the dominant low mid frequency of the rhythm guitar is.

Getting bass to kick through in mixes...I dunno...but what I've heard is not to try boosting the low bass frequencies...but to reduce them a bit and raise the harmonic frequencies around 1kh...with a really wide Q...you can raise all those frequencies up over 200. Something like that. The original bass tone can't really be ignored though...so if it's just this DI bass wall of blehhhhh (like I'm good at recording) then it's hard to shape. I've found myself tracking bass with a hardware EQ and removing stuff below 70/80hz etc. I know that sounds crazy...but in songs I do...and in yours, you don't need crazy low bass. And on most places people listen as long as there's a decent 100hz (or wherever the best bass freq is for the part played) that'll be good.
 
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The second mix is a huge improvement! Keep it up!

@Monkey Allen
That's indeed interesting, as the low note of a bass is around what, 40 Hz?
Nevertheless on most average speakers these frequencies will not be present much and when listening to a bass over e.g. smartphone speakers you hear the harmonics only. So it is a good tipp I guess. Have to try it myself.
 
Trichter said:
The second mix is a huge improvement! Keep it up!

@Monkey Allen
That's indeed interesting, as the low note of a bass is around what, 40 Hz?
Nevertheless on most average speakers these frequencies will not be present much and when listening to a bass over e.g. smartphone speakers you hear the harmonics only. So it is a good tipp I guess. Have to try it myself.
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Yeah, I just find that for me because I record DI bass only, that I get huge amounts of low end. Rolling off from 70hz down still preserves sub 100hz frequencies but they don't overwhelm or eat up headroom. Not sure if you're doing DI bass. Also agree that the 2nd mix is a huge improvement. Much better.
 
Monkey Allen said:
EDIT: The above comment was for your mix in the opening post. Listening to the updated one....MUCH better. You've backed that rhythm guitar off a bit and generally things are better balanced. Still feels a bit congested all around whatever the dominant low mid frequency of the rhythm guitar is.
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Thanks! Now I totally hear that congestion from the rhythm guitars, Especially as the song builds. Much appreciated observation.

I did DI the bass, just used my LA2A style Compressor pedal. I have a bass amp which I leave at my friend’s house, so maybe I’ll reamp through it and see how it sounds. For now I’ll mess with those high pass ideas and raising that 1khz mid range. Might also try some bass amp emulations and some compression bands on the low end. Thanks again!
 
That bass advice was really helpful. I ended up using a combination of a hard low cut slightly above 40hz, and then for the 40-120hz range I used the low band of TD Nova to compress that range while giving it a slight boost, so it stays more consistent. I did a ton of other stuff to the lead vocal and a bit more to the guitars, some more general automation and stuff.



Cheers!
 
Hiya,

Just for clarity, what kind of sound are you going for and do you have any references in mind for what you're trying to achieve?
 
Well I'll say this, I just listened to my new mix in the car, and I am definitely NOT going for the bass sound you hear there! Geez, it almost sounds like a shitty kick drum on every bass pluck. I think maybe I was letting way too much of the transient get through in the low end compression?

I'm going for a kind of 'smooth funk' bass sound, if that makes sense. I don't want the notes to pop out in the way that it does when you're playing slap bass, and I'm not looking for overwhelming volume, but I do want the articulation on the bass to be audible in that you hear more than just the really low frequencies come through in the mix.

I just tried making the attack time for the low bass frequency compression a lot faster, and I like the sound more. Way smoother on the individual plucks!
 
Yes, similar! A little dirtier, a little less open sounding, but if you were to take that tone and play it a bit less slap and more rock-like, that sound in the video you linked to is the essence of it.
 


1:00 in, the bassline starts. It gets more pronounced as the song goes, and it has a lot of the tone I’m going for. All those little lead fills in the postchorus have the kind of sound I’m going for
 
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