I'm hoping to get some feedback on the RE20 as a vocal mic., since there's no way I can test one before buying, and even second hand they are not exactly cheap. I'm living in a rental apartment and can't do any serious room treatment and a few people recommended that I try using a dynamic mic to cut a lot of the room out of the picture. I'm doing some simple stuff like hanging blankets/quilts from ceiling hooks, but my condenser still picks up a lot of the room. I tried a few dynamics mics but so far nothing that wows me. Someone recommended I try the RE20. FWIR it has very little proximity effect, which in my case, is good. Also very little sibilance...also good, since I have a lot of problems with S's with most mics. How does it compare to a condenser mic...especially in terms of clarity and detail? Is it dark...bright...somewhere in the middle? Thanks in advance.
RE20 on vocals vs. condenser
- Thread starter jaz49
- Start date
TeyshaBlue
It's the smell..
My experience with the RE20 is that it's a pretty good mic for thinner voices and voices where you want to tame siblance issues. It's a very flexible mic with many applications and a nice tool to have. That being said, I very much prefer the sound of the RE20 as opposed to the RE20ND. The ND seems to be just a bit edgier than the earlier version. As compared to the run of the mill, sub $500 condenser mic, it's not as detailed and definately a shade darker. Still a great mic for the vocalist that needs a little beef.
Thanks for the heads up on the ND version. I didn't know there was a newer version of the old standard. I might like to try a darker mic than my PR35, which gives me quite a lot of sibilance. I'm demoing an AKG d3800 right now and it's darker than the Heil which seems to work out well on my voice.
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
If you're going to take the plunge for a higher end dynamic, I would recommend Shure SM7b. It's as good as the RE20 on vocals, has similar sonic qualities, and costs a little less. It doesn't produce the detail of a good condenser, or for that matter, the D3800, but it is, nonetheless, a great mic. The proximity effect is very gentle, and it is, in general, a very forgiving vocal mic. I use it as my main stage vocal mic. You are into a paradox here, that you have to live with. The clearer and more detailed a mic is, the more unforgiving it is. That is, the more stuff it picks up that you don't want, and the more it challenges you to not have sounds you don't want in front of the mic. It's a Catch-22. In the end, you have to decide what to live with. There are no mics that are detailed, and have a "bad detail" filter.-Richie
Makes sense...they don't have the technology to make a dynamic mic that sounds like the Oktava 219, which is my favorite sounding mic of all I've tried. It won't work in a poorly treated room though ...always a compromise in life or so it seems! I get mixed opinions on the SM7 vs. the RE20. I guess it's very subjective as to which is best on vocals...and very dependent on the singer that's in front of it.
PlatinumSamples
New member
I would agree - get an SM7 (I would not use an RE20 on vocals).
Rail
Rail
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
RE20 has a very characteristic "EV Sound" that is similar and comparable to all the other EV dynamic mics. If you can find a used EV ND167, 357, 457, 757, 767, 967 that someone will let you borrow and test, then you will hear almost exactly what an RE20 sounds like. The 967 is far superior to those others, and will sound most like an RE20, but the RE20 will still sound better yet. The general tone and freq response will be similar, but the RE20 is bigger diaphragm and will be more clear and easier to get a good take with......assuming you have lots of clean gain. Its ability to almost nullify proximity effect is not intended to assist singers who dont have professional technique, it is intended for broadcasters who sit at a radio desk and eat the mic. The RE20 is first and foremost a broadcast mic, and it just happens to work well for a lot of studio apps. It is brighter and phatter in the upper mids, which some people like. It will never give you the same level of clarity or detail as a good condensor, but it will outpace any of the budget dynamics easily.
All that said, if you want a great dynamic that will help cancel out room noise, can be had used mint for $300 or less, is built well in the USA, and works great with a wide range of vocals, then you should skip the RE20 and start hunting for SM7b. There are basically 3 popular mics that fit that description, RE20, MD421, and SM7b. And the SM7b is by far (imo) the best one for vocals. I found mine mint condition on ebay from a private seller for $280, and I sold my RE20 within a week after I got the SM7. In fact, I have gotten rid of every EV mic I ever had. You dont realize what that characterisstic EV sound does to your mix until you work with it for awhile. But if you get an RE20 and never compare it to anything else, you'll never know what you're missin anyway! Not a bad mic, not at all, just not as good for vocs as the SM7.
Sibilance can also be defeated simply by changing the angle at which you face the mic. I cut my own sibilance way down instantly just by turning the mic away from my mouth about 45 degrees.
Now if you start talking kick drum mics, the story changes quickly!
All that said, if you want a great dynamic that will help cancel out room noise, can be had used mint for $300 or less, is built well in the USA, and works great with a wide range of vocals, then you should skip the RE20 and start hunting for SM7b. There are basically 3 popular mics that fit that description, RE20, MD421, and SM7b. And the SM7b is by far (imo) the best one for vocals. I found mine mint condition on ebay from a private seller for $280, and I sold my RE20 within a week after I got the SM7. In fact, I have gotten rid of every EV mic I ever had. You dont realize what that characterisstic EV sound does to your mix until you work with it for awhile. But if you get an RE20 and never compare it to anything else, you'll never know what you're missin anyway! Not a bad mic, not at all, just not as good for vocs as the SM7.
Sibilance can also be defeated simply by changing the angle at which you face the mic. I cut my own sibilance way down instantly just by turning the mic away from my mouth about 45 degrees.
Now if you start talking kick drum mics, the story changes quickly!
Interesting points thanks. Yes, I've been turning the PR35 about 30 degrees off axis and it helps with the sibilance. I had an old RE10 which had a very 'flat' response and very little sibilance...but pretty dull and boring. the PR35 and sennheiser e835 sound better on my voice...better top end. I don't know if the RE10 has what you call the characteristic EV sound or not...it sounded pretty 'flat'...little or no eq needed. As far as getting an SM7b, I'm worried that I'll have to practically eat the mic to get a decent level. It's got such a low output, I don't know if it's the best mic for a guy who sings pretty quietly and does a lot of 'softer' kind of material. When it comes to vocal style, I'm like the opposite of a punk screamer.
I think the RE20 is awesome. I've not had much use of the SM7b so I can't directly compare them. I love the RE20 on kick. Nuff said!
On vocals it's good for the heavier vox.
To be honest it sounds like a condenser would still be the best for you. I'd look to spend the money on acoustical treatments - like rockwool slabs, and cover them in cloth DIY stylee, it will make a surprising difference.
Alternatively a condenser that's aimed at stage use might yield better results?
On vocals it's good for the heavier vox.
To be honest it sounds like a condenser would still be the best for you. I'd look to spend the money on acoustical treatments - like rockwool slabs, and cover them in cloth DIY stylee, it will make a surprising difference.
Alternatively a condenser that's aimed at stage use might yield better results?
I've been thinking along the exact same lines. Audio Technica used to make a stage condenser that's hypercardioid ...supposed to be a very good vocal mic...the ATM89R. I don't know the model that replaced it, but there is also one that AKG made that is similar... the C5900, I think. I did some more testing last night and, I doubt any dynamic mic will sound as good as a good LDC...but I'm preferring the D3800 dynamic over the AT3035 LDC in a recent shoot out I did. I managed to keep most of the room out by hanging some blankets and quilts from the ceiling.
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I can't help but think that a lot of what we attribute to 'dynamics picking up less room' than condensers has a lot to do with how close dynamics are set up to work' and thus how we use them.
Figure out how to work other (apples to apples pattern here to be fair) condensers 1/2" from the cap and there will be good 'room to source ratio.
Granted there are more very tight stage mics, but that's not quite the primary driving force in this app. (Otherwise it's be OM7' and be done with it.
The line we're straddling here is 'tone first. As soon as we start looking at extreme close vocal p/u (compared to 'studio norms) we're set up for compromise- narrow, incomplete picture' of the voice, skewed and extreme tone and dynamic variation with vary small distance variations, breath problems..
Check out the SM7 -the cap is set back farther than 57's, 58's and such, making room' for good p/u and effective blast' filtering. Same with the RE20. I'd bet that has a lot to do with why these two walk the line' well.
Figure out how to work other (apples to apples pattern here to be fair) condensers 1/2" from the cap and there will be good 'room to source ratio.
Granted there are more very tight stage mics, but that's not quite the primary driving force in this app. (Otherwise it's be OM7' and be done with it.
The line we're straddling here is 'tone first. As soon as we start looking at extreme close vocal p/u (compared to 'studio norms) we're set up for compromise- narrow, incomplete picture' of the voice, skewed and extreme tone and dynamic variation with vary small distance variations, breath problems..Check out the SM7 -the cap is set back farther than 57's, 58's and such, making room' for good p/u and effective blast' filtering. Same with the RE20. I'd bet that has a lot to do with why these two walk the line' well.
Supercreep
Lizard People
RE-20 is my favorite vocal mic hands down.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Why would you not use an RE-20?
If you follow the link in my sig to the LPC site, listen to "Lady Policeman" or "Memento". This is an RE-20 into an MP2NV, with an LA2A plug.
Because of the tremendous off axis rejection, I was able to record both these vocal tracks in the control room without headphones.
Try that with a condenser.
yup, regardless how you set it up, a condenser catches tons more room
darrin_h2000
Banned
Mostly it is the amount of work that has been done with the SM7 that pushes me in that direction...the fact that you get to keep more of your money is a nice bonus.
Ive never liked my Octava 319...but got it because it was only $25...it worked OK as a distance mic for amps but I havent found any voices that go good with it.
in a little row
New member
re: sm7b vs. re20...this is an oft discussed topic...as far as im concerned theres no do it all large diaphram dynamic...some folk sound better on the shure, some on the re20...it also has to do with singing style and dynamics...you cant go wrong with either, but they are different animals for sure
youre going to need clean headroom for both, so budget for a good pre
when i think of the re20 in the studio, i always remember several of those classic stevie wonder albums were done with nothing but an re20
the sm7 is more widely used in vocal recording in europe...
i think most of 'thriller' was sm7, so was alot of wilco's YHF
most of my last record was done with an re20, im a male tenor who sings strongly some and rather high harmonies some, it work wonders for me
youre going to need clean headroom for both, so budget for a good pre
when i think of the re20 in the studio, i always remember several of those classic stevie wonder albums were done with nothing but an re20
the sm7 is more widely used in vocal recording in europe...
i think most of 'thriller' was sm7, so was alot of wilco's YHF
most of my last record was done with an re20, im a male tenor who sings strongly some and rather high harmonies some, it work wonders for me
Can you describe how they are different. I'm a baritone...mostly softer, laid back style singing...some country...some rock...but laid back for sure. I don't sound anything like Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson! Maybe Leonard Cohen or Lou Reed.
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darrin_h2000
Banned
You might be more familiar with these vocalists that used the SM7...
Robert Plant
Bob Seger
Paul Rodgers
I havent seen the RE20 used on any big records cept Meat Loaf's "Paridise By the Dashboard Light"...and only the baseball announcer part...I think if it was a better choice...engineers would be choosing it.
Robert Plant
Bob Seger
Paul Rodgers
I havent seen the RE20 used on any big records cept Meat Loaf's "Paridise By the Dashboard Light"...and only the baseball announcer part...I think if it was a better choice...engineers would be choosing it.
Paul McCartney used the RE20 on one of his early solo albums, FWIR. But, he's a tenor. Someone mentioned Jagger liking it too. Bonnie Rait also, FWIR...and the guy from Radiohead. They obviously could have chosen other much more expensive mics if they wished. I originally got interested in that mic because of an article I read in Recording Magazine that recommended it.