Raw mic signals & the "fishbowl" sound...

R

RobinGoddard

New member
I've just started recording with unprocessed raw mics and I've kinda predicted what I've been hearing with a lot of newbie recordings: that whenever anything is miked with a RAW mic signal, it nearly always gives it a fishbowl-like sound.

To cut my teeth, I'm making a remake of CSN&Y's song '4 + 20' which only consists of a stereo miked acoustic guitar and vocals (and of course, I thought mine was going to be easy).

I've already had some mixing experience with other people's raw files (completely unaware of their gear setup) and they sounded pretty clean and open but this is the first time I'm doing anything with my gear. I'm just using a SHURE 57 mic and a RODE NT2000 (PAD switch off) for the guitar at the moment. I have a SUMMIT 221-2BA pre-amp but that's only good for loud signals since it gives off a bit of noise

I suppose there's a lot of factors to this. I'm not using any processing, EQ or compression; just moving each mic every which way possible. I live in a good sized studio apartment but I'm trying to get relatively close so as not to pick up the room.

I do have a couple bass traps I made since I want to deaden things a bit for some subtle reverb later. For now, I'm just trying to get a good starting point with a raw mic signal.

The acoustic guitar is tricky to mic but of resonance etc. But what's with the raw fishbowl sound? Is it really all about mic placement & room?

Thanks,

- RG
 
Hard to know what 'fish bowl sound is to you- we can guess 'face stuck in a bowl'- but that's a pretty extreem image of a sound.
A small boxy sounding room effect-- maybe. But to me that usually comes up as some odd low mid resonaces in acoustic inst or vocal tracks.
 
I have been recording a long time, started a small studio in the 1980's in my lounge, I have also built 4 studios since then. What I have come to realise is that you need to get a sound from the raw mic sound that is close to or what you finally want, that way you only EQ and treat the sound to fit the final mix if required. I have also realised over the years that the room acoustics is everything to do with the sound you get, while you do need good mics, any mic that has a reasonable sound will get the job done if the room and source sound good.

The fish bowl sound is probably the room.

Also I don't understand the summit pre being noisy? Have you get it set up correctly regarding line levels and mic inputs? I notice that the XLR out is +4 and the jack -10, are you using the XLR out or cranking up the volume using the jack at -10?

Alan
 
I'm with Alan - its sounds like a room problem. Post a sound clip so we can hear what you are calling 'fishbowl' sound.
 
Actually I'm only using the +4 XLR out for the SUMMIT pre. While I'm sure it sounds good for electric gtrs and other louder sources, there tends to be hiss when I turn up the Tube dial for a quiet source. To be honest, I don't exactly know what the '+4' means on the XLR output let alone the -10, which I haven't used yet.

But yes, I'm sure you're right about the acoustics. I previously made a couple bass traps for mixing but I'm planning to build a few more to give me more variables and hopefully something I'll be satisfied with...

I'll put together some samples of what I've tried so far...

Robin
 
I'm guessing phase problem between the two mics. Are you tracking the guitar with one mic and singing at the same time thru the other?
 
No I'm just playing gtr so far. I don't think it's a phasing issue since I don't hear it and nothing seems to cancel out in mono. I hear the fishbowl sound a bit even with just one mic.
 
Here are a couple samples of both my mono and stereo miking. The stereo recording has a bit of background noise since I was closer to my computer without any acoustic treatment nearby. The mono recording is further away with a bass trap and two adjacent hanging packing blankets on either side of it behind me. These are raw recordings without any processing or EQ. The stereo seems to have the fishbowl sound I'm trying to get rid of (go figure)

The mono is with the RODE only:

https://soundcloud.com/robingoddard/4-20-mono-recording-forum-help/s-9MqxN

The stereo is with the RODE on the left ch. and the Shure 57 on the right ch. (panned about 70 each) miked vertically about 4-5 inches away from the gtr:

https://soundcloud.com/robingoddard/4-20-stereo-recording-forum-help
 
No idea what you mean by "fishbowl sound".

I don't hear anything necessarily *bad* with the stereo recording...other than you should tune you guitar up.
 
miroslav said:
No idea what you mean by "fishbowl sound".

I don't hear anything necessarily *bad* with the stereo recording...other than you should tune you guitar up.
Click to expand...

I can't listen at work, but if you don't hear anything, then maybe its the OP's monitoring set up.
 
Now that I've listened it's nothing like I expected based on "fish bowl". It just sounds a little dull like it needs a high shelf boost or something, and maybe some reverb.
 
mjbphotos said:
I can't listen at work, but if you don't hear anything, then maybe its the OP's monitoring set up.
Click to expand...

All I used were a pair of dinky computer side speakers to listen...but still, nothing terribly wrong/bad that I would call a "fishbowl" sound.


It may be that the OP is comparing for the first time what his ears are hearing live to what he is hearing recorded, and it's not the expected sound...and that's what's "fishbowl" to him...???
 
I'm not hearing any type of issue here that I would relate to the term 'fishbowl'.

I am wondering if there is somehow a chance the OP's monitors are wired out of phase? That would be a very rare event...
 
Thanks for your replies.

Actually, since I'm using two different mics, there probably is a phasing issue in the stereo one. I imagine that's pretty hard to get right so I'll probably stick with the mono recording as the finished project one I get more room treatment going.

Maybe I'm just another "lost soul swimming IN a fishbowl"?

:listeningmusic:
- Robin
 
RobinGoddard said:
Thanks for your replies.

Actually, since I'm using two different mics, there probably is a phasing issue in the stereo one. I imagine that's pretty hard to get right so I'll probably stick with the mono recording as the finished project one I get more room treatment going.

Maybe I'm just another "lost soul swimming IN a fishbowl"?

:listeningmusic:
- Robin
Click to expand...

I am intrigued by the noise problem with the summit, it is a high end pre not some cheap thing. But maybe this is for a different thread?

Alan
 
witzendoz said:
I am intrigued by the noise problem with the summit, it is a high end pre not some cheap thing. But maybe this is for a different thread?

Alan
Click to expand...
I have one and I've not had any "noise" issues (never really went looking for noise though). I have seen discussions in other forums regarding noise and the 2BA-221. Do a Google search on 2ba-221 noise.
 
IMHO, It sounds like the mics combined together make for a eqing effect(not perfectly out of phase or in phase).
I must be tired can't figure out how to make it run through my phase analysis software. But you could do that, a lot of DAW software comes with it and see what that says.
 
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