Rate this Mastering Studio

Alexbt

New member
Hey all,

So I just got a message from a Mastering Engineer on MySpace. I'm not necessarily looking for a ME right now, but I figured it would be interesting to see where you all weigh in on the quality of the guy's work.

http://www.masterworksound.com/

To me, all of the tracks sound like they've got some kind of gain increase or limiting. I've not downloaded the tracks to actually see the difference though.

The second song, that sounds like it's a Broadway tune is HEAVILY limited... which I would NEVER think of doing... sounds to me like there was a problem with the mix with the piano not being loud enough and the end result was the solution, but it ruins the vocal as a result.
 
Hey all,

So I just got a message from a Mastering Engineer on MySpace. I'm not necessarily looking for a ME right now, but I figured it would be interesting to see where you all weigh in on the quality of the guy's work.

http://www.masterworksound.com/

To me, all of the tracks sound like they've got some kind of gain increase or limiting. I've not downloaded the tracks to actually see the difference though.

The second song, that sounds like it's a Broadway tune is HEAVILY limited... which I would NEVER think of doing... sounds to me like there was a problem with the mix with the piano not being loud enough and the end result was the solution, but it ruins the vocal as a result.
Wow, the first track is pretty terrible. The snare is just there in the mix, it's enough to be ok, but it's lost in the master.

EDIT: just checked a couple more and they all suffer from this. This does happen with limiting but a ME should know how much is too much. The loudness war is ruining everything!!!!
 
So I just got a message from a Mastering Engineer on MySpace.
And I saw an ad for a Vietnamese woman looking for a relationship in the back page classifieds of Jugs Galore magazine.

Either way, I wouldn't run out and buy that ring just yet.

;) :D

G.
 
Wow! This guy has a Dell computer, Mackie control surface, Samsung monitor, and JBl LSR series monitors!

I wouldn't use that stuff to mix, much less master.
 
Was that the November or December issue?:p
There is no date. It's one of those mags where they print "Issue One" and then move on and print another magazine in a different name using the exact same pics but in a different order. ;)

Pics please............;)
Of the jugs? Here ya go:
http://www.jdcollectorspage.com/images/Alan4.jpg

P.S. Love the Sebastian Cabot avatar and new location, Dave :D.

Wow! This guy has a Dell computer, Mackie control surface, Samsung monitor, and JBl LSR series monitors!

I wouldn't use that stuff to mix, much less master.
Oh, I don't know, Jay...I could get some use out of the Samsung monitor maybe :).

G.
 
Yeah, I noticed his -- I can't remember what he called it. But it looks an awful lot and is worded and awful lot like my "Checklist."

But at least he went through the trouble to make his own... I've seen that list on a dozen sites and they literally paste "XXXXXX" (whatever) over "MASSIVE" on them.

That's why I have an ugly watermark on it now.

I'm kinda with Farview though... Especially with the near-fields...
 
Oh, I don't know, Jay...I could get some use out of the Samsung monitor maybe :).

G.

Yeah, my Samsung TV kicks ass!

I listened to the guys "before and after". While an improvement, it's almost like he went out of his way to make the "before" sound super-crappy.
 
When checking out a mastering studio it's always a good idea to see credits of past work. What does a search in Allmusic.com and other similar music sites show for Thomas Deyesso?
 
Last edited:
That would be a good idea if Allmusic wasn't riddled with errors and/or there was a way to straighten them out.

All of my credits are mixed in with some other guy with the same name that is in a band called The Douglas Fir.

I've spent years trying to get this fixed. There are also a few albums I've done that don't have credits posted on the site...only the big ones that I produced...

I dislike allmusic.com
 
That would be a good idea if Allmusic wasn't riddled with errors and/or there was a way to straighten them out.

All of my credits are mixed in with some other guy with the same name that is in a band called The Douglas Fir.

I've spent years trying to get this fixed. There are also a few albums I've done that don't have credits posted on the site...only the big ones that I produced...

I dislike allmusic.com
ROFL...I've apparently played on an Australian Jazz singers album.

No mention of any of my album credits in the Blues world. confused:
 
According to the guy's own website, he has only been at this for a few years. There's nothing wrong with that, just that there's not likely to be any engineering credits beyond the samples he's providing.

I have nothing against a newb; there no law that says one *has* to be a seasoned pro veteran to be a good ME - there are people out there who learn quickly and have a natural ear. And to his credit, I'll say that this guy went the proper mile and hung out a pretty good website.

But his gear list doesn't smell right; there are no pictures of the acoustic space or of any analog gear whatsoever, and not even a list of his digital collection. You'd think he'd at least be listing which plugs he's using with his "multiple DAW" applications, which he also does not list.

But what bugs me the most is the fact that he's actually actively soliciting work on meSpace. That tells me that, a) he doesn't have current work and that b) he is actively targeting newbs. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. That also tells me that he doesn't have a GOB network rep that he can work off of. A Boston Southie without connections? That's like a New Yorker without attitude! ;)

Which leaves us with his samples. Either you like their sound or you don't, and either there's something there that seems to match what you have and need or there isn't. He seems to be going for the mo' louda, mo' betta client. If that's your bag, go for it. But I'm not all that impressed myself. Then again you all know I think that pushed stuff sounds like crap no matter who does it.

G.
 
That would be a good idea if Allmusic wasn't riddled with errors and/or there was a way to straighten them out.

All of my credits are mixed in with some other guy with the same name that is in a band called The Douglas Fir.

I've spent years trying to get this fixed. There are also a few albums I've done that don't have credits posted on the site...only the big ones that I produced...

I dislike allmusic.com

Granted, there are tons of errors on mine as well as a huge number of CDs missing, however it does serve as an indication of what one has done in the past. There are other sites as well that list credits, my point being if someone has zero credits the only way that you can confidently evaluate their work is through a demo of your own material to ensure that that original hasn't been tampered with. This is the main reason why I haven't bothered with demos on my site.

As far as experience and mastering goes, I would have to say that yes there are some less experienced engineers that are good but as a general rule I would trust someone who has had a successful mastering business for several years over one who hasn't.
 
As far as experience and mastering goes, I would have to say that yes there are some less experienced engineers that are good but as a general rule I would trust someone who has had a successful mastering business for several years over one who hasn't.
Oh, I agree completely. Just as I would with an electrician, plumber, roofer or any other trade.

[Caution, I'm thinking out loud here and I'm not sure where I'm going with this :o]

I guess I'm wondering just how one expects to get started these days.

The old formula of internship and apprenticeship before hanging one's own shingle is very sound advice, but with the inexorable changing of the guard these days of the Big Boy studios shuttering up, every engineer running their own shop out of their own space, and what worthwhile internships there are left being gobbled up by the big schools, the classical path is quickly disappearing. One can't so simply just hang out in the alley behind Sun Studios and wait to be asked to get coffee and doughnuts for Carl Perkins or just hang out in a studio and suddenly be asked to play keyboards for Bob Dylan out of the blue anymore.

One has to have their first client long before they can have their thousandth client, and if everyone waits until someone has their thousandth client before they are considered worthy, no one will ever become worthy because no one will be willing to be their first client.

G.
 
G,

As a member of the educational community and seeing students graduate every year I understand this completely. You need to pay your dues like everyone else. Getting into the mastering field was never easy in the past. I would say that it's actually easier now than years ago. Unfortunately this ease of entry due to lower cost alternatives creates an environment where mastering is commoditized and dilutes terms like "quality service" and experience.

Maybe this dude is good. I would like to hear what some of his clients have to say about his work and see some sort of client list. Personally I don't think that this is too much to ask if I'm going to have someone perform the final tweaks to a piece of work that I've sweated over up to this point and am planning on paying for this service. References mean far more than a website and some possibly tweaked source tracks.
 
there's a guy here in town who is just starting up. he's doing a somewhat bizarre project i mixed off of cassette 8 track. he is doing changes until the band is happ and i don't think they are getting charged much if anything. i think that's a good way to do it. that's how i learned while on 8 track recording.

that said - i don't call call most guys who master in town here mastering guys. they aren't. they're guys who will take your money and put it to disc while either doing too little or way too much (usually the later) and if they're a recording studio they charging twice or three times as much as their normal rate to screw up your record.

i know a couple guys who do a passable job in that situation...but they are also the guys who do this and let the artist know there is somewhat of a difference between what they are set up to do and what a mastering studio does. they charge half as much (eg 250 instead of 500-600 at a real mastering place.) this is acceptible...even though they're making an elevated rate...at least they are acknowledging the difference.

they guys with the computers who don't? ack.

Mike
 
G,

As a member of the educational community and seeing students graduate every year I understand this completely. You need to pay your dues like everyone else. Getting into the mastering field was never easy in the past. I would say that it's actually easier now than years ago. Unfortunately this ease of entry due to lower cost alternatives creates an environment where mastering is commoditized and dilutes terms like "quality service" and experience.

Maybe this dude is good. I would like to hear what some of his clients have to say about his work and see some sort of client list. Personally I don't think that this is too much to ask if I'm going to have someone perform the final tweaks to a piece of work that I've sweated over up to this point and am planning on paying for this service. References mean far more than a website and some possibly tweaked source tracks.
Again, I agree completely with all of this. And, let's face it, as the one who compared this guy's marketing to a mail order bride, I'm not defending him ;) :D. I find his gear list and studio descriptions - or the lack thereof - to be quite troubling.

If the guy is using little more than a cracked Waves Diamond suite and the copy of Ozone that came with Sound Forge, you know there are going to be limits to what he can do as a mastering engineer, and if his room treatment is not up to snuff and he's depending on the active EQ in those JBLs to make up for that, that's going to straight jacket him a bit as well. Then there's the utter and complete lack of anything outboard/analog. Maybe those are non-issues, but 99 times out of 100, when such details are left out of the description of a mastering suite it's because there's not much there to brag about. And I bring up the quality of the website to make the point that you cannot easily just dismiss the lack of such detail as being sloppy web design and implementation.

But it just brought what I thought was an interesting question to my mind; in this new millennium playing filed in audio, what *is* the best way to get business and rep when the only way to get it is to already have it? Actually I am interested, Tom, in just how your grads actually do attack this problem? Of course they do have the advantage of being able to put your tutelage at the top of their resume, which I'm sure does not hurt ;).
bigtoe said:
there's a guy here in town who is just starting up. he's doing a somewhat bizarre project i mixed off of cassette 8 track. he is doing changes until the band is happ and i don't think they are getting charged much if anything. i think that's a good way to do it. that's how i learned while on 8 track recording.

that said - i don't call call most guys who master in town here mastering guys. they aren't. they're guys who will take your money and put it to disc while either doing too little or way too much (usually the later) and if they're a recording studio they charging twice or three times as much as their normal rate to screw up your record.

i know a couple guys who do a passable job in that situation...but they are also the guys who do this and let the artist know there is somewhat of a difference between what they are set up to do and what a mastering studio does. they charge half as much (eg 250 instead of 500-600 at a real mastering place.) this is acceptible...even though they're making an elevated rate...at least they are acknowledging the difference.

they guys with the computers who don't? ack.

Mike
I think this is an excellent breakdown of the difference between the three different "classes" of "mastering service"; the pretenders with PCs, a copy of PTLE and a copy of Ozone and call themselves mastering services, the prosumer-grade services who do a servicable job at a servicable price and are honest about their place in the pecking order, and the real pros with both the experience and facilities to fit the top shelf, traditional definition of "professional mastering service". The first the world would be better off without, while the others have their respective legitimate places in the marketplace.

The tact of doing pro bono work to build rep is a good one. It does have it's dangers in that it can be difficult sometimes to make the transition from pro-bono to billable work. But if one has a plan something along the lines of a crack dealer of giving them the first one or so free (and making sure thy have more than one to do), or some other way of charging for the respect while giving the the service free, it is indeed a good way to open doors :).

G.
 
Last edited:
But it just brought what I thought was an interesting question to my mind; in this new millennium playing filed in audio, what *is* the best way to get business and rep when the only way to get it is to already have it? Actually I am interested, Tom, in just how your grads actually do attack this problem?

Firstly they have studied audio engineering for 4 years so they already have 4 years of experience after graduation. In addition to studying mastering with me, they study mixing/recording, digital audio, composition, ear training, and many other areas of audio and music with the other professors. They have experience on various types of pro gear including a few different analog consoles, tape, many different mics and pieces of analog gear. So they have skills, experience, and knowledge above the guy who just bought some stuff at guitar center.

I try to tell them to use this experience along with any mixes, masters, etc. that they have accumulated during school to help sell themselves (starting with mid-level facilities) in order to land a job. I also tell them to think in terms of how they can best help a prospective studio not just with their engineering skills but in how they can help make the business more profitable. I know of few studios that wouldn't hire an engineer with a good attitude and the ability to bring in new business or help in other ways to make money for the studio.

Some end up starting their own studios building their clientele, others get gigs at various places starting at the bottom and working their way up. I also recommend that upon graduation that they look for a good part time job with flexible hours so that they can pay bills (including those nasty college loans) while developing the audio side of their careers.

As with any professional career it takes time, dedication, and hard work.
 
Back
Top