Rate my song

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Josh English

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I posted my lyrics on here a while ago and got some intereting feedback. Since then I have finished my album. A couple of people commened that they would interested in hearing how my lyrics worked to music.
If anyone would be interested, a couple of my songs can be dl off my web site www.joshenglishmusic.com
I would really appreciate any feedback people could give me.
Thanks a lot
Josh
 
Nice...
I really loved those two songs you had up. In my opinion, they came out great. If the rest of your songs sound like that I'll definitely be one to buy your CD.

Keep writing!
~Clove
 
Clove,
I don't know if your still interested, but if you are my album is finally available to purchase off my web site (through CD Baby.) If you are interested, then that's great and if your not, then that's cool too.
Thanks
Josh
 
The guitar is definitely out of tune or has some intonation problems as well as the bass guitar is very muddy. The drums are a little deep in the mix in the first song. The vocals are sitting pretty nice, but could use a low cut for sure. Sounds alright though. I think you used a pickup to record your acoustic, which for this kind of music is definitely a no no, at least by itself. Trying micing it as well. There are also some timing problems which you'd wanna tackle by using a click track to ensure all of your tracks are in time.

What did you record it with, its pretty noisy.
 
Yes, I listened to Lost In The Snow. It's certainly a good song, but I'd agree 100% with patrack's comments. There was a lot of mud around that bass thing on the first beat of each bar, and the noise was very high.
 
very typical

this music is very typical i like it but its better to sound more original and a more challenging song i like it tho
later
 
It's really quite good

This is a good song. I think your voice has a lot of character and should be exploited a bit more. I would try add a little bit of dynamics to the mic. It's sort of a song that has a lot to say and it sounds like it should build to a real angry moment then sort of have a resolution. I sort of think the listener is waiting for a resolution or at least a conclusion. I am going to listen to it again to make sure I didn't miss anything. I did enjoy it alot, and I think you have a bright future as a song writer. Keep up the good work!

Cheers

Dave
 
Yeah the bass I plugged in directly because I don't own a bass amp. I suppose that it does suffer from that and maybe I'll invest in a good one. Although I'm pretty sure nothing's out of tune.
I keep experimenting with recording and getting better and better as time goes on.
Thanks for the feedback
Josh
 
Josh,

Normally I don't chime in with criticism, but since you seem to be pursuing this seriously (web site, CD, touring, etc.) I'm hoping some of this helps. I've listened to the song quite a bit (like a food critic that goes back to a place three times before publishing a less-than-glowing review.)

In terms of recording, I actually liked the guitar sound, but agree with the other comments. What some thought was tuning problems may have been mis-hit chords.

My biggest issue is the lyrics, both in terms of content, and what they did to your voice. Forgive me if I've posted this quote before, but it absolutely strikes to the core of what separates "pro" writing from beginners and stubborn amateurs - it's from an alt-country artist named Tift Merrit, who got some play on CMT with the song "Oh, Virginia (No one can warn you)"
When asked about writing she said:
[Q]
I tend to be inspired by a whole range of things, but I look for inspiration that isn't fleeting. There has to be something of substance that I believe in so much that I can't let go of it until I address it and figure it out. That's when an idea is worth developing further. I often begin with something that affects me personally, but, by the time I finish the song, it has hopefully been crafted enough that it's no longer attached to a sentiment such as "I had a fight with my boyfriend." That kind of writing is a journal entry, not a song.
[/Q]

More writers need to place the last two sentences on a huge sign in their home studios. Obviously artist/writers who are interested in a career rather than just churning out hits will have more personal perspective in their work, but 'Lost in the Snow', as it stands now, is a text book example of a 'journal entry'.

The problem with the type of lyric described above is that every word becomes sacred, to the detriment of the music. As I listen to the song, I hear your voice struggling to force in words that simply don't belong and totally mess up the phrasing - once that goes, it turns into a game of catch-up and pitch starts to suffer. Your voice has a very 'Matt Johnson' quality (from the band 'The The')- I'd love to hear you sing 'Uncertain Smile' - it has a similar chord progression/tempo/rhythm to what you were after with Snow.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps.
 
MRX,
I read your post, then read my lyrics to Lost in the Snow, then re-read your post and I must say, you're absolutly correct. That is really excelent advice and I'll be sure to keep that in mind when I write from now on. Actually the lyrics to Lost in the Snow were an attempt on my part an attempt to write lyrics that weren't particularly depressing. The majority of the lyrics on my album dealt with "leaving" in one form or another, and I was trying to counter that with a "lighter" song.
Actually, if you don't mind and you have the time, I'd be interested if you would comment on lyrics to a different song of mine. These are, I think better, but I would be interested in your take. (Bear with me, this is a long song.)

To rest with no pillow words hard on the floor
And another religion will knock at the door
And seduce you for dreaming of pail colored lights
Which all seem so beautiful, when noticed at night
In the shadows that cast, by the moon’s crystal beam
You’re hair is so limp as you sit on your carpet and dream

Do you ever feel lonely or bitter or angry?
Distrustful of company, be it friend or enemy
Do you ever feel broken from hit or from sting?
Like your chest will give way, if you can no longer sing

But don’t count on the melody’s to help you along
I made that mistake now my music is gone
I’m living for leaving, for finding a home
So pass ‘round the bottle I’m sick of being alone.

My friend is a prodigy like Midas before him
His gold colored daughter can no longer adore him
But I’ve got no ability to fix or to change them
I just sit in the corner and watch

A fatherly figure is stalking my dreams
I don’t see death or torture or wine or smoke rings
I see poster board beauty, bright colors of joy
Tomorrow’s temptation is today’s little toy

So don’t count on the remedy’s to help you feel better
There’s little to say for medicinal splendor
Give it a morning and mended you’ll be
I can see in you eye’s that you think you’re in love with

Deception, religion, true love and greed
It’s all been discussed on the basis of need
I remember my brother’s we were headstrong and young
When we picked up our instruments, Christ, what have we done?

Dear Persephone I’m sorry but do this I must
For I promised your father, you’d never become one of us.



Again sorry for such a long song. Thanks again for your comment, I really do appreciate it, it's probably the best advice I've gotten on my songwriting in a long time.
Thank's
Josh
 
Josh, I'm struggling a bit with those lyrics (with the caveat that this is only my opinion which is no more valid than yours or anybody else's). There are some very sweet phrases in there, but I wonder, to take just 4 examples:

Who are you talking to?
Why was Midas a prodigy? (love the line that follows that one)
Why are wine and smoke rings similar to death and torture?
What does the penultimate verse mean?

I'm going to make a bold leap and take a guess at how you wrote this. I suspect that you started off with a direction in mind, but that each line of lyric actually took a direction from the line before, so that you took lots of little steps rather than clean lyrical strides along a clearly defined path (I'm doing my best to explain!). What you have ended up with is something that meanders around many different ideas, and it's confusing.

There's some good stuff in there but it could do with honing, is what I'm trying to say.

All the best

Garry
 
Josh,

The first two lines of most verses have a nice rhythmic feel, and the 'sound' of some of the phrases is effective:

'...rest with no pillow words hard on the floor'
'...living for leaving, for finding a home'

I can hear the above lines, regardless of meaning or context, being 'sung', for example. As Garry mentioned, some of the other lines seem to suffer from being influenced too directly by preceding thoughts. There is another active thread concerning lyric writing that addressed this very topic - you have a volume of material here that now needs to be editted into a song. I think if you got one verse built out your best lines and put it to music, it might help show where other parts are getting too 'wordy'.

Granted this is just an opinion based on not hearing your music - I would probably say the same thing about Neil Peart's lyrics prior to Geddy and Alex putting them to music. (I cringe everytime I see the line "Like some pilgrim
Who learns to transcend", yet 'Time Stand Still' manages to be a beautiful, melodic, rhythmically pleasing song)

(I found the lyric to the song I mentioned in my prior post - the initial inspiration was probably something very 'dear diary', but the final product has an abiguity that allows the listener to paint the details:
Uncertain Smile - The The c. 1983 Matt Johnson (Guessing on the copyright details)

Peeling the skin back from my eyes, I felt suprised
that the time on the clock was the time I usually retired
to the place where I cleared my head of you;
but just for today, i think I'll lie here and dream of you.

I've got you under my skin where the rain can't get in,
but if the sweat pours out, just shout I'll try to swim and pull you out.

A howling wind blows the litter as the rain flows,
As street lamps pour orange colored shapes through your windows,
a broken soul stares from a pair of watering eyes,
uncertain emotions force an uncertain smile...

I've got you under my skin where the rain can't get in,
but if the sweat pours out, just shout I'll try to pull you out.

)
 
Gary and mrx,
I can understand what your both saying about these lyrics but I agree with that each line does have a tendency to relate to the line before it, but I don't think that's a problem. Assuming, and this is what I tried to do with this song, that the entire song portraits a particular emotional feel. Realisticaly, people are rarely happy, depressed, angry or whatever for only one reason. Usually it's a group of things. So having a song that's stream of consiousness and touches on a number of subjects, but still emits a particular emotion, I think is acceptable.
But then again, maybe because I wrote the song it's easier for me to see the emotional tie between all the different events in the song. Hmm... I guess I'll have to think about it further and I'll definatly keep it in mind in the future.
Thanks a lot guys
Josh
 
Josh English said:
But then again, maybe because I wrote the song it's easier for me to see the emotional tie between all the different events in the song.
Click to expand...

That's the hard part - when writing hits for other people the rules ('formula') are clear cut, but when writing for yourself (or your band) there needs to be some 'personality' to build a fan base, while also making 'good' music. That's where I keep going back to that Tift Merrit quote - the 'craft' is taking those emotional ties (something that your eventual audience will find compelling throughout your body of work) and turning them into 'songs.'

(I cringe reading Le Tigre's lyrics, but what they have to say connects with an audience that supports them as working musicians, so you can still be true to yourself with whatever you have to say.)

I'd be interested in hearing this tune when you get it recorded.
 
because I wrote the song it's easier for me to see the emotional tie between all the different events in the song
Click to expand...

That's your problem in a nutshell. Are you writing for you or for an audience?
 
mrx, I again agree with you. I think that with any form of art, a true appreciation for it can only be had when there is knowledge of the creator. For example you can see a very well executed painting of war and perhaps there is appreciation for it. But when you learn that the painter was in battle and watch his friends die, then your emotional tie to it makes it that much more brilliant. With music, I think it's good to allow the audience to learn something about yourself through your lyrics. By the way, the song is already recorded and on my album. I'm currently traveling the country on tour, otherwise I would make it available for download off my web site, but sadly I can't do that til I return.

And Gary, I'm writing for a combination of myself and an audience. If i didn't write for myself, I'd find no enjoyment out of it. However, I do desire to make a living at it (I don't mean become hugely famous or rich, although if your offering...) So I try to strike a balance between writing for personal growth and developing it into something that other's can appreciate.
 
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