ramble on rose - a little lost on this one...

[heatmiser]

Greetings,

I have a soundclick link below to a cover of an early '70's dead tune entitled ramble on rose. Not sure exactly where I'm at with this. I've tried to cover this several times over the years and this is the closest to "ok" I've ever gotten.

I really tried to counter my normal tendency towards robotic vocals on this and let go a little, but couldn't quite get my voice to break up towards the end of the tune as I wanted. I think the guitar solo came out pretty good, but I probably went too crazy with the bass? I wanted to drop a few bass bombs towards the end for emphasis, but pretty much any time I hit the lower bass registers, there is a sub bass sound that I personally like, but suspect it would be overwhelming to some, perhaps most, listeners .

Please let me know if you think I'm in the ballpark mix and performance-wise here, I really lost perspective on this at some point... Thanks !

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=8064185

 

[mixsit]

Ok a Dead. Cool.
First impression is there is something odd about the feel- the drums?, prominent hat’?, missing those straight ‘1’ guitar/keys punches? Can’t put my finger on it.
Curious too, are you using a minor on the II (E) in the chorus?
Anywho- I’d say raise the key (for your vocal , and add a healthy dose of anarchy!
add.. And bring the solo up.. more edge' (as always..
One of the reasons they can be slippery’.. Per Jerry I believe- ‘We don’t actually play the parts like you’d think, we just imply it.’ (paraphrasing..

 

[heatmiser]

Ok a Dead. Cool.
First impression is there is something odd about the feel- the drums?, prominent hat’?, missing those straight ‘1’ guitar/keys punches? Can’t put my finger on it.
Curious too, are you using a minor on the II (E) in the chorus?
Anywho- I’d say raise the key (for your vocal , and add a healthy dose of anarchy!
add.. And bring the solo up.. more edge' (as always..
One of the reasons they can be slippery’.. Per Jerry I believe- ‘We don’t actually play the parts like you’d think, we just imply it.’ (paraphrasing..

Thanks mixsit!

Yeah, I may have missed the mark in a few ways here. Thanks for your thoughts . I'm trying to do something different with this, which I think would be fine, but it still has to work on some level and not simply be different.

The drums are perhaps not the best choice and the loud HH has to go, but I consciously avoided the '1' on the guitars for the most part as I liked the loping sort of shuffle that resulted.

The chorus is all major chords. I believe the only minor chords are an F#m in the verses and a Bm to start the bridge. Tons of chord changes, so I don't think I'll be up to transposing it, but I hear you on the vocals. I certainly am no tenor, but I tried to work it in my own voice. Thanks again !

 

[RAMI]

I can see what Mixit's saying. In a higher key, I think it would have more impact.

Also, I find the bridges a little weak phrasing-wise for the vocals. and a little more can be done musically in that bridge.

But I don't agree with you, Heatmiser, that you missed the mark. The drums aren't bad. Maybe a little too busy/choppy at times, but they are funky too. You have a good voice. Nice and thick. That's why I think a tone higher would allow you to sound more comfortable, beause it's a fun song with a nice groove.

 

[guitar zero]

I like the song. The guitars and bass line carry the song well. Good toe tappin' beat. The vocals seem to sit behind the guitars a bit. Anything you could do to bring them up front more would help. I also think the background vocal could come up just a titch. Also, the song has a lot of open space for something else like a mandolin, banjo, or violin that would fill it out more and i think would sound cool on this song. Thanks for posting, enjoyed this one.

 

[ez_willis]

vocals are pitchy, but less so than the original version. that could be the problem. They are also lacking emotion. sounds like you're just going through the motions.

I'm way too chickenshit to ever attempt a Dead song so I totally give props to you for that. music sounds good too.

 

[ez_willis]

hang on though. I used to listen to the Dead religiously, for years. I haven't rocked a Dead record for at least 3 years and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

I WILL be listening to samoe Dead tomorrow.

 

[JRSIV]

Another kickass bass track!

Hey Heat, well Mr. Lesh would be proud of that fat ass bass sound! Another great bass track IMO. Like the gang said though, maybe another take on the vocals would be the way to go. Just belt it a with bit more abandon and maybe add some harmonies?

If you did this on the 388 you should have a few tracks left from what I hear (drums sound like they're in mono and along with the bass and voice it sounds like just a few acoustics.) You could add some stuff like Zero said to spice up the mix a bit.

I dig the song and the groove though, Heat. I'm really a fan of your's and of the Dead's as well. I went to several Dead shows with my Dad in the early '90's and they were excellent. Sting opened for them one year (!) and they played together later on during the Dead's set. Very cool...

 

[joeym]

Nice tune, Heat!
I don't find anything wrong with the recording, everything's balanced to me. Love that bass sound....
Your voice is nicely in tune, what it needs is a bit more gut. Nice work!

Joey

 

[ido1957]

I'm not a dead fan - no reason really - but this sounds really good. There's no problem with the mix and that bass is pretty sweet... The rhythm would kill me - you nailed it. What are you using for the solo? It's sounds like a mix of keys and wah...cool stuf HM.....

 

[RAMI]

Also, I find the bridges a little weak phrasing-wise for the vocals. and a little more can be done musically in that bridge.

I had no idea this was a Dead cover. So my above statement is irrelevant. If that's the way they wrote it, that's the way it should be.

 

[queepy]

I dig this...agree with earlier comments on the bass guitar...sounds phat man!
Good groove, if I had to nit, the vocal and the single line guitar parts, both seem a little upper mid heavy...nice playing thru out!

 

[heatmiser]

I can see what Mixit's saying. In a higher key, I think it would have more impact.

Also, I find the bridges a little weak phrasing-wise for the vocals. and a little more can be done musically in that bridge.

But I don't agree with you, Heatmiser, that you missed the mark. The drums aren't bad. Maybe a little too busy/choppy at times, but they are funky too. You have a good voice. Nice and thick. That's why I think a tone higher would allow you to sound more comfortable, beause it's a fun song with a nice groove.

Thanks for takin' the time rami ! And thanks for the encouragement as well. I'm glad you found some stuff that worked a little and I intend to try to do something with the vocals.

I like the song. The guitars and bass line carry the song well. Good toe tappin' beat. The vocals seem to sit behind the guitars a bit. Anything you could do to bring them up front more would help. I also think the background vocal could come up just a titch. Also, the song has a lot of open space for something else like a mandolin, banjo, or violin that would fill it out more and i think would sound cool on this song. Thanks for posting, enjoyed this one.

Thank you zero ! Given the state of the vocals, I don't think I'll bring them forward any. I'm gonna see what I can do with this. The additional stringed elements you mention sound awesome, but I have only guitars at this time. I'll see if I can add more with what I've got...thanks again.

vocals are pitchy, but less so than the original version. that could be the problem. They are also lacking emotion. sounds like you're just going through the motions.

I'm way too chickenshit to ever attempt a Dead song so I totally give props to you for that. music sounds good too.

I'm glad you chimed in here ez. It's ironic, 'cause the one thing I was most concerned about (the bass) doesn't seem to be an issue at all and the best thing I thought I had going here (the vocals) are obviously an issue for most. Even more ironic still is the fact that I was specifically going for a more emotional delivery on this , but that is part of why I come here...to get some perspective, so thanks !

hang on though. I used to listen to the Dead religiously, for years. I haven't rocked a Dead record for at least 3 years and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

I WILL be listening to samoe Dead tomorrow.

I hope you made good on this...I take a break from them frequently, but 3 yrs. is a long freakin' time .

 

[heatmiser]

Hey Heat, well Mr. Lesh would be proud of that fat ass bass sound! Another great bass track IMO. Like the gang said though, maybe another take on the vocals would be the way to go. Just belt it a with bit more abandon and maybe add some harmonies?

If you did this on the 388 you should have a few tracks left from what I hear (drums sound like they're in mono and along with the bass and voice it sounds like just a few acoustics.) You could add some stuff like Zero said to spice up the mix a bit.

I dig the song and the groove though, Heat. I'm really a fan of your's and of the Dead's as well. I went to several Dead shows with my Dad in the early '90's and they were excellent. Sting opened for them one year (!) and they played together later on during the Dead's set. Very cool...

It's really cool that you took the time to spell things out JRSIV. I appreciate it. I'm happily surprised the bass sounds ok. I am working on belting it out this afternoon with mixed results so far (I thought that was what I was doing the 1st time ).

I actually did use all 8 tracks here although I agree it sounds a bit sparse. I might ditch some peripheral tracks and re-record them with additional something-er-other stuff included...I dunno, guess I'm a little confused still.

I saw the dead many times between 85 - 95, but I wish I'd caught them more in their prime...still a ton of fun though. Thanks for the encouraging words!

Nice tune, Heat!
I don't find anything wrong with the recording, everything's balanced to me. Love that bass sound....
Your voice is nicely in tune, what it needs is a bit more gut. Nice work!

Joey

Thank you Joey...you are always very kind . I'm very glad you liked it and I am working on finding my inner gut as we speak.

I'm not a dead fan - no reason really - but this sounds really good. There's no problem with the mix and that bass is pretty sweet... The rhythm would kill me - you nailed it. What are you using for the solo? It's sounds like a mix of keys and wah...cool stuf HM.....

Hey ido! Long time ! This may work better for someone unfamiliar with the tune...I don't know, but I'm happy you liked it. The solo is my sg with an envelope filter setting on a multi-fx pedals run through my ampeg with tons of verb -- a garcia standby sound. Thanks again .

I had no idea this was a Dead cover. So my above statement is irrelevant. If that's the way they wrote it, that's the way it should be.

Well, they didn't write it quite like that ! The basic arrangement is pretty faithful here I guess, but there is more going on in their version, so you probably had a point after all...ironically, the bridge was my favorite part (I am full of irony today)

I dig this...agree with earlier comments on the bass guitar...sounds phat man!
Good groove, if I had to nit, the vocal and the single line guitar parts, both seem a little upper mid heavy...nice playing thru out!

Thank you queep!! Reassured on the bass sound, so that's good . I will check out your latest soon, but am in the middle of re-tracking some stuff now...

Yes, the mids in general are acting weird on the track, particularly on my voice...pain in the ass to be honest, but I ain't givin' up yet !

You guys all rule for trying to help me here...I'm going to try to incorporate some of this, retrack some stuff and repost if I can make any progress...

 

[antichef]

Sounds great! Could you use a capo (did I just say that?), to go to a higher key? I also think it would sound good to go up a bit

 

[heatmiser]

New mix with new vocals--->

Sounds great! Could you use a capo (did I just say that?), to go to a higher key? I also think it would sound good to go up a bit

Thanks chef...never tried a capo before but I guess that is what people do with 'em, huh? I have a new mix below with new vocals, but still the same key I'm afraid.

I worked on this a ton the last two days and ultimately got pretty frustrated. I really tried to belt out the vocals on Sunday and felt like I'd hit on something, but I play it back and it sounds more or less the same...clearer though, yes?...I dunno.

I had to zero out the whole mixer to retrack vocals and add BGVs, so this mix is totally different, better overall I think, but still pretty flawed. The cassette at this point has been overdubbed on so many times that I'm starting to get bad warbling effects and pitch fluctuations, so if I want to edit this extensively, I should probably start over...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=8064185

Let me know if anything jumps out...

 

[Llarion]

Greetings,

I have a soundclick link below to a cover of an early '70's dead tune entitled ramble on rose. Not sure exactly where I'm at with this. I've tried to cover this several times over the years and this is the closest to "ok" I've ever gotten.

I really tried to counter my normal tendency towards robotic vocals on this and let go a little, but couldn't quite get my voice to break up towards the end of the tune as I wanted. I think the guitar solo came out pretty good, but I probably went too crazy with the bass? I wanted to drop a few bass bombs towards the end for emphasis, but pretty much any time I hit the lower bass registers, there is a sub bass sound that I personally like, but suspect it would be overwhelming to some, perhaps most, listeners .

Please let me know if you think I'm in the ballpark mix and performance-wise here, I really lost perspective on this at some point... Thanks !

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=660667&songID=8064185

Hey man...

You got a nice, loping feel going... I think the drum track is a bit sizzly, maybe round it off a bit for this type of song. I have to agree that raising the key by about a minor third would put it more in the meat of your range and you could REALLY relax.

PS, LOVE the solo. Love it, love it, love it.

 

[JRSIV]

Right on Heat! The new vox tracks kick ass and I think the new mix sounds tighter and more coherent. The harmony vocals definitely provide what was missing before and the lead is more assured. I didn't say so before but that solo is wicked! Just a cool bubbly tone that brought to mind Jerry Garcia but didn't completely cover up your personality as a guitarist.

And I don't know why I kept thinking you were recording on a Tascam 388 Studio 8; the fact that you're using a Tascam 688 MidiStudio makes your stuff all the more of an achievement! From someone who uses the same format alot (I use a Tascam 488mkII), getting a good sound from 8 tracks squeezed on an 1/8th of an inch of tape is not easy. I know what you mean about the tape getting squirrelly after lots of overdubbing and/or retakes.

In addition to getting good sounds and trying to throw down good performances, the recording media can "act a fool" and make life difficult! Even so, I still love Tascam cassette machines and dig hearing what other true believers are laying down with them...keep it up Heat.

 

[Supercreep]

Not my favorite Dead song, but I think this is awesome.

I agree that the voice wants to be an octave up in this key.

Thanks for recording this.

 

[heatmiser]

Hey man...

You got a nice, loping feel going... I think the drum track is a bit sizzly, maybe round it off a bit for this type of song. I have to agree that raising the key by about a minor third would put it more in the meat of your range and you could REALLY relax.

PS, LOVE the solo. Love it, love it, love it.

Thanks Llarion. It's pretty much unanimous on the vocals. I want to check out your track but am having problems on my end with a pop-up blocker prevented reverb nation's player from working, but I'll keep trying !

Right on Heat! The new vox tracks kick ass and I think the new mix sounds tighter and more coherent. The harmony vocals definitely provide what was missing before and the lead is more assured. I didn't say so before but that solo is wicked! Just a cool bubbly tone that brought to mind Jerry Garcia but didn't completely cover up your personality as a guitarist.

And I don't know why I kept thinking you were recording on a Tascam 388 Studio 8; the fact that you're using a Tascam 688 MidiStudio makes your stuff all the more of an achievement! From someone who uses the same format alot (I use a Tascam 488mkII), getting a good sound from 8 tracks squeezed on an 1/8th of an inch of tape is not easy. I know what you mean about the tape getting squirrelly after lots of overdubbing and/or retakes.

In addition to getting good sounds and trying to throw down good performances, the recording media can "act a fool" and make life difficult! Even so, I still love Tascam cassette machines and dig hearing what other true believers are laying down with them...keep it up Heat.

Thank you JRSIV. You are too kind. I'm glad you noticed the differences in the new mix which makes me feel like I did accomplish something with it. Overall though, the vocals clearly still aren't quite right and I think I know why now.

Much as I love the tape, it can be fickle! I am having massive pitch issues with the 688 where simply rewinding to go back and add another track finds you flat or sharp relative to the existing tracks even though the same instrument you just used is still in tune. I'm getting frustrated with having to either adjust the pitch on the machine or tune my instrument to the existing tracks! Ah well, it is a labor of love after all. Maybe if I just ignore it, it'll go away !

Not my favorite Dead song, but I think this is awesome.

I agree that the voice wants to be an octave up in this key.

Thanks for recording this.

Thanks Supercreep. I'm glad you like it as I know you know this tune (even if not a favorite).

So, the voice...sigh...it is unanimous...

I think I need to avoid serious covers of tunes with a tenor part or higher (I say serious 'cause no one seems thrown off by the deep vocals when I cover britney speers or whatever ). That will be tough as that probably includes most popular music ever recorded. Maybe I should stick to crash test dummies ?

I mean, if someone suggests trying a guitar part higher up...no problem, but my voice is just so damned deep and I seem to have very little range (except even further down )!

So, maybe I'm ok with originals 'cause no one has anything to compare it to? It isn't horrendous or anything, right? You guys would tell me if that were the case? I think my pitch and technique, while not great, are improving, but the voice is just too damned low !

Sorry, not looking for sympathy here...just trying to take stock of the situation, y'know?