quieting a loud snare in the overheads?

[T-RAVE]

I am recording live drums and my drummer hits really hard on a really loud brass piccolo....it seems to record louder in the over heads ( 2 mxl 603's) than the actual 57 on the snare.....so if I want to get my cymbal levels hot the snare is even hotter and clips the recording....the only rememdy I found was to back off the gain but the then the cymbals are too quiet... I tried a frequncy driven auto gate to "notch out" the snare on mixdown....am I doing the right thing or is there a much better way?

thanks

 

[AGCurry]

Yes. Ask him not to hit the snare drum so hard.

 

[T-RAVE]

hah! I guess thats one way...I think trying a quieter snare is in order....

 

[Wireneck]

The other option is to tell him to play the cymbals harder. I hate drummers who don't play with any balance.
Since you are micing the snare seperately, you might try rolling off some of the low end in the overheads. That may wipe out a good bit of the snare.

 

[jonnyc]

Roll off the low end, get real dramatic with it if you have to. I've rolled off to 1kz before and it really worked for getting rid of the junk I didn't want in my overheads. The only other easy option is really just not hitting the snare so loud. I usually ask for light on the cymbals, light on the snare, heavy on the toms and kick, and its really easy for me to get a great drum mix. If that doesn't work then insult drummer and find a new one.

 

[T-RAVE]

thanks for all the help...I think I'll star with rolling off the lowend....

 

[chessrock]

You mean they let guitar players engineer? Just use a hard limiter ... or a compressor with fast enough attack (and large enough ratio) to bring down the peak transients to where they're more in line with the cybmals and toms. If you use something like an L1 or similar, just keep bringing the threshold down until you get a better balance (or until you start getting the yucky / swishy cymbal effect). A snare that's a little too loud in the overheads isn't the worst problem to have.

You could also use this in conjunction with an expander (not totally necessary though), which would bring the volume up a little in between snare hits. There are also some outboard leveling compressors that serve this purpose -- namely the Ahpex Compellor; used a lot in radio broadcast to even out levels between comercials and announcers, etc. And they just happen to do a really good job on drum overheads for fixing problems like the one you're facing right now. Used ones go for like 100 bucks on ebay.

Oh yea ... and you should also tell him not to hit the snare so hard.

 

[T-RAVE]

thanks chess....looks like I have a bunch of options.....

I consider myself a fool/novice when it comes to this stuff....


how are things going in Chi-town?

 

[Yareek]

Another option I've heard in the past is to raise up the cymbals, if you are separately mic'ing the snare and toms. This will bring them closer to the overheads and cut down a bit on the snare noise. That or else detune the top head of the snare a bit, which lowers the pitch and generally the volume as well.

Is it just the snare drum overall or ring or snare sound? I found one good way to cut down on the volume of my snare is to switch out the snares from steel to brass (Puresound makes some brass snares). It's a relatively inexpensive fix at about $20. Also, self-muffling heads from Evans can help, as can regular muffling of some tape and tissue paper or moongel.

The best, of course, is to just hit the snare softer, but sometimes that kind of adjustment isn't easy.

 

[remco]

put the oh closer to the Cymbals

Remco

 

[chessrock]

how are things going in Chi-town?

It's definitely the place to be in the summer. Unfortunately, it pretty much sucks any other time of the year.

 

[Frankm666]

Had same the same problem...

One solution I’ve tried, since I always have a room mic going, was to bag the traditional over heads and direct mic the cymbals. Really this is just bringing the over heads down and pointing them in (away from the drummer and the snare.) You still get spill from the rest of the kit but much less cause your levels are set lower for the crash and ride volumes (which are now very close to the microphones.) Also, you still keep the cymbal mics (modified over heads) in stereo, paning them as hard as you want. Then if you want more room you just adjust your room mic level.
I have nowhere near the expertise of others here so take this with a grain of salt. Hope it might help.
Frank

 

[Ronan]

Move the overheads closer to the cymbals and also mvoe them out to the sides more to get them away from pointing right at the snare. Also try alternate mic postitions such as using a stereo pair in front of the kit instead of overhead.

Also if the snare is very "ringy" it will obscure the definition of the cymbals and make then sound quiter.

 

[Han]

Use a compressor on the OH's and put a decent EQ in the side chain. Find the EQ that's most in the snare sound. The snare sound will duck at each hit, the cymbals will stay.

Works somewhat like a de-esser, but on another frequency.

Experiment, that's how you find solutions.

 

[krs]

Why not scrap the overheads and move the pair out in front of the kit?

 

[ecktronic]

Yeah i would play about with mic and cymbal placement first before going out and buying extra outboard gear. I would raise the cymbals definetly. Position the OHs so they are beside the drummer facing directly towards the cymbals and so they are not facing the direction of the snare. Or try pointing them straight down at the cymbals a small distance from the cymbals.
Also get the drummer to hit the cymbals harder, prob best getting the drummer to practice this before going to do takes though.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

It's definitely the place to be in the summer. Unfortunately, it pretty much sucks any other time of the year.

I didn't know you were in Chicago. What neighborhood? I'm in Logan Square.

 

[fazil]

Idd move your oh's closer to the cymbals and point your oh's to the cymbals. Also, try XY, so your oh's aren't pointing directly at the snare. Try not to use compression end eq to solve this problem. I bet you can get this right with positioning your mics only.
Telling your drummer to be quieter on snare will probably disturb his performance. You could rise your cymbals so you get a better separation.

 

[bigwillz24]

If all else fails.....
Use a digital editor to remove the snare hits.

 

[Janesaid2me]

I think there are probably like 10 ways to solve this problem which it seems most people have covered....talk to the drummer about either playing the cymbals louder or snare softer, get a different snare, try diff overheads, try diff overhead placement (i think this is your best option in my opinion if the drummer cant change his style), try some eq, try MB compression....ya got a long list here....since you seem like you dont know the technical stuff as well maybe stick to the basics like talking to the drummer or the mic placement so that they are away from the snare and more of the cymbals...but that could F up how it picks up the toms if your not using tom mics as well...??? IDK just and idea...