"Quiet Zone"

Hey Steve,
I dont know what brand the RC is, this stuff has a flange with holes spaced about 2" apart for attatchment to the studs, then a 1/2" bend at a 90 degree angle then another 90 degree bend with what appeared to be around an 1 1/2" surface for the sheetrock to be screwed to, I seriously hope its the right stuff, it would definately give the 1/2" air space between the studs and the sheetrock no doubt.
I really dont like the idea of mounting the electrical boxes behind the wall treatment either, Im going to look into some kind of a decent looking surface mount system. that way the only escape route will be the small hole created for the supply line which can be easily caulked..
Im right there with ya on the orientation of the sheetrock, screw length and NOT screwing into the studs...
Thanks one hellof allot! Without your input, I would have screwed up royaly, not to mention wasted a ton o bucks.
I owe ya one.
Jim
 
Oh yeah, one more thing, I was thinking about adding a 1/2" layer of asphault sheething over the sheetrock to deaden the room a little, the budget will allow for it, do you think, good, bad, unnecessary? Plus it will give me the black interior that Im looking for.
 
Hanging around at home conjures up many unanswered questions. Do I need to treat the ceiling with RC since I used sissor trusses? Theres a 2 foot air space between the actual outside compared to the room heigth. save me. lol
 
Asphalt sheathing? Are you going Goth and want to embrace death on a real, fiery furnace sort of level? As far as I know, all that stuff is totally flammable and a really BAAAAAD idea for inner layers of habitable areas. Not to mention not good acoustically either...

If you want black AND life, how 'bout checking around locally for knauf products - specifically THIS...

http://www.knauffiberglass.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=prd.dspProdDetail&ID=16

Good acoustics, black, what more could you ask for? (OK, maybe availability...)

On the scissors, the theory of sound proofing is the same, you need two masses separated by one air space. If your outer layer is air tight (no vents) then you need one more leaf with air in between it and the outside. If the outer skin is NOT airtight, probably the best you can do is put RC and a couple layers of wallboard on the inside of the scissor trusses, and have a heavy layer of cellulose insulation blown in on top of it.

If the outer skin is close to being airtight, you could get some of the newer, high density fiberglas batts and put mineral wool up, then the fiberglas under, then RC and double wallboard. You want the loose fiberglas to ride AGAINST the ceiling panel - this helps damp the panel, which improves Transmission Loss both at the LOW end and also at the Coincidence Dip frequency, which is around 2-4 kHz for gypsum. This will explain this part far better than I could -

http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/tloss.htm

With all surfaces, leave about 1/8" gap all the way around and caulk HEAVY with acoustic sealant - this lets each wall flex on its own (ceiling too) -

In either case, stop the ceiling drywall at the edge of the vertical wall, and caulk heavy. You don't want the ceiling drywall surface to extend over the wall, or you could get flanking noise travelling along the ceiling drywall - this would reduce sound isolation quite a bit.

Putting RC on ceilings, you should point the open side of the RC alternately one direction then the other. This evens out the pull and helps the ceiling hang straight, and not slew toward the closed ends of the RC. With the slope of scissor trusses, you might want to put 2 out of 3 RC's with the open end up. That would probably balance the forces out better... Steve
 
Hey Steve,
One quick question, in an earlier post you stated to "NOT GLUE" between the layers of sheetrock, I was just wondering if it would be an acceptable idea to use some kind of silicone between the layers to prevent any potential surface to surface vibration?. I guess Im just looking for a little clarification on that one.
Thanks,
Jim
 
Jim, I just got home from 12-hour graveyard shift so I'll keep this brief (at least compared to my normal posts) -

First, here's a link to some info that may help your understanding of walls -

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=529

As far as the between layer glue thing, some people put a bead of caulk or construction adhesive on wood studs before the FIRST layer of wallboard - If you're using wood studs, there are some specific NO-NO's for multi-layer walls.

I think most if not all your questions should be answered by the above thread... Steve
 
Finlly finished, exactly three months to the day. This room is nothing sort of absolutley infreekincredible! Almost zero audible sound at ten feet. The week link is definately the door, Ill be installing a 1-3/4" solid core door asap. The sound on the inside is very workable, with only the carpet down, it has a warm, rich ambient texture that in my opinion will be reatively simple to tune. So, to sum it up, Im very pleased with the outcome of this project and woud like to thank everyone who offered input along the line, especially knightfly (yeah you Steve) for taking the time to work with me to get the job done correctly the first time. Uhh, whats your opinion on the Tascam portastudio 788?
Beer time,
Later
 
Hey Jim, glad your project came out as good as you hoped, and you're entirely welcome -

As far as the 788, I looked briefly at it before deciding to invest in a newer laptop and move Samplitude to it (more versatile for me, and more tracks - plus, with Cake on the side I can do MIDI too)

still, I didn't see any glaring problems with the 788 as far as it goes. If you already have a newer computer, though, you can do a lot more for the same $$$ with a multi-input sound card and some software. Kinda depends on how/where you intend to work... Steve
 
Hello Steve and Amped, excuse my intrusion in your thread. I understand the floating floor, but how do you float a ceiling structure from the walls and roof? Kinetic isolators on cables or something? And how do you treat the actual roof sheithing? Seems as though the ceiling structure would have to hang from ceiling joists with a perimeter just like the floor, with soundboard and all the caulking. Just like a double floor structure? Been wondering about this for a while. Would you double up roof sheithing layers for mass or would a double ceiling account for a mass air mass assembly? Kind of like the floor. But if you did that, and have the roof sheithing, does that make a triple leaf system? Even if the attic space were filled with rock wool or something? Thanks.
fitZ:)
 
In order: Yes, Carefully, right, yes, yes, no, maybe, probably.

OK, Fitz, now that you mention it I WAS fucking with you...

I know I'm correct in assuming you don't need this info in the next 24 hours, so I'm gonna take advantage of that just this once - I'm kinda in the middle of setting up a new network at home, and wifey's back in school needing my able ??!? mind to finish the network, set up her necessary apps and clean up what's now gonna be her and my office. I've got your very question on the middle burner, slated for cool-ass drawings and everything, but it ain't gonna happen this week -

Actually, if you read your questions back those really were the (excruciatingly) succinct answers. The long version - coming soon to an Aussie BBS near you... :=)
 
OK, Fitz, now that you mention it I WAS fucking with you...
Click to expand...

Oh, really:D What else is new?:p Oh, the network huh? We just got our server and webspace working this week. My son has the computer guru skills to pull this stuff off. I sure don't. But it's nice to have a place to post my pics and plans. Ok, your right, I don't need this in the next 24 hrs or days for that matter. I was thinking about this just the other night and happened to read this thread, which is related. Soooo. Anyway, when you get a chance Steve. No hurry for me. I won't utilize this for quite a while.
fitZ:)
 
Hey Fitz, we're STILL not communicating - how 'bout if I EVER, EVER, actually get mad at you, tired of you, ANYTHING negative at all, I just yell, "GO FUCK YOURSELF FITZ", and then you'll be SURE - otherwise, I'm more smartass than I am "intelligent rectum"... The word you picked out of context was used to modify the word "succinct" - meaning: I'm NEVER that brief, so it was "excruciatingly succinct" -

So, just in case you're STILL not sure, if I'm still talkin' to ya and NOT yelling "fuck you", then we're still cool, and all ya gotta do then is figure out WTF I'm tryin' to be a smart-ass about (sometimes I'm not even sure myself)

Sooo, now that we're good??!? how's the Gajillionaire Greenhouse Gig goin? (Note the cool alliteration? I shoulda been a song writer - oh, wait, I kinda is wun...)

For your 3-phase stuff, if the motors aren't over about 3 horse we can probably fix you up for a total of about $250 if you don't need to run BOTH of em at the same time.

Gotta go harass more "innocent civilians"... Steve
 
Hey Amped, excuse this exchange. Steve, you are very cool.:D I'm just not very good with vocabulary. You are much better with words than I. Sometimes I guess what a word means, only to find out I am wrong. This must be one of those times. I should have looked up succinct:D Just like ebosity. Alright, I'll make this easy.

Thanks Steve. Forgive my nonsense. Now.....


how's the Gajillionaire Greenhouse Gig goin?
Click to expand...

Well, it isn't at the moment. I got all geared up to start working Sunday, and the guy I'm so called working for came over and said the architects are becoming a real PITA.
And I believe it. You wouldn't believe the spec's on this. Moisture content spec's at time of unloading, installation and enclosure. It started raining yesterday and most of the material for the job is on hold, while the architects scratch their head at thier own spec's. They wanted us to start framing the 2x10 stuff, which ultimately is supposed to come out like kiln dried vertical grain doug fir, but they only want to pay for #1 common. Kind of like wanting your cake and eating it too.
We changed our order to #1 and when it came in, most of the boards were twisted, with wane, or warped. Impossible to frame with, let alone make it come out like a really nice shelving unit. Lots of other problems already though. I won't go into it, cause it takes too long to explain. But bottom line is all of a sudden, I don't have any work. For at least 3 weeks, and by that time its going to be too wet to build anything, although the Port Orford cedar log rafters are all up. Looks great. Now, I have to get my shop togeather and hustle some work. Quick. Hey Steve, I can't do anything about the 3 phase issue at the moment. No funds to finish this shit. I hate it when people lead you to think one thing is happening then another takes place. Sorry to have wasted your time, although I still need to know what I can do. Anyway, thanks for the answers, and btw, don't mind me and my misunderstanding. I'll learn. My apology for misreading you.
fitZ:D
 
No prob, Fitz - just watch for the "fuck you" and you'll know :=) (but don't watch too long if you got things to do...)

This is what I'm thinking on the 3-phase stuff - cheapest way that will work unless you find somebody that want's to swap 3-phase motors for 1-phase -

http://home.att.net/~waterfront-woods/Articles/phaseconverter.htm

Store bought versions of this are around $2-300 if you're scared or lazy - for about $250 you can buy one that will handle 3 hp motors - you could just wire a duplex box with a pair of 240 volt twist-loks, plug each motor into one, and only run one machine at a time. The static converters are about 70% efficient, so the motor wouldn't have quite the "snap" it had running on REAL 3-phase, but it works for anything but full-load applications (saws are cool)

Not sure what a DIY version of this would cost, and I don't really have the time to get into it - you might be stuck with buying an off-the-shelf unit if you can't find a swap meet... Steve
 
Ive decided to nix the 788, Instead Im going the computer route, I have a 2.6 gig with tons of memory and a cd burner. All I need now is some opinions on which multi input sound card and software to use. And also, Id like to post a few pics of the room, (remember, its mostly a live room for now untill I get it set up for recording), but I have webtv and no way of loading them to the site, so, I need to email them to someone whos willing to do the footwork. Im not sure if thats even possible.
Ah yes, its finaly Friday, I need beer!
Later!
 
Forgot to congratulate you on your room, I'm really glad you're happy with it -

On the 'puter/sound card thing, it would be best to post in the Computer Recording and Soundcards forum - you'll get a lot more input and less whining :=)

Basically, you'd need to know your EXACT motherboard and chipset info - some cards are really picky about which chipsets they work with and which ones they puke on - some chipsets really ROCK for audio, and some really SUCK - You will wanna get a separate hard drive if you want much of a track count, the WD 7200 rpm with 8 meg cache seems to get the least amount of bad press lately. Setting this all up for best audio performance will take some time, but will make a big difference too.

Depending on what OS you're running, there are tweak guides all over the net for best results -

Oh, yeah, we were gonna take this to the Computer forum... Steve
 
knightfly said:
For electrical, if you can stand it you'd be much better off NOT breaking the wall surface for boxes - even heavily caulked, they lose several dB of isolation for you. Better if you can use surface mount wiremold, and surface mount outlet boxes.
Click to expand...

There is another option,

When we build firewalls and require back to back boxes - we are forced to use the fire seperation putty packs.

We have to do this to maintain the fire rating of the wall assembly.

BUT - properly installed these packs are tested and provide an STC rating of 40 for the pack mounted on one surface. So I also use them in sound situations.

I personally find nothing more attractive than a punch through box - wire molds always look like an after thought to me. So these things are a life saver.

The proper way to do this if you cannot get to the back of the box after drywall would be to prepack the box to stud and gently lay the remaining pack over the face of the box - and tuck it slightly inside.

Then install your 1st layer of drywall - and press the pack into that face. You can then install your 2nd layer of drywall over the first - sandwiching the putty pack in between.

On the question of how to get the box out to the face of drywall - you need to use "plaster rings" - they come in different thicknesses and are readily available at your local electrical supply house.


Rod
 
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