Quick simple question about FireWire soundcards

qb2k5

New member
Why do most firewire sound cards have two fire ports on the back of the box?

Does this mean you have to have both firewire ports plugged into your pc, or does it mean only one port is plugged into the pc and the extra firewire port could be used for any another firewire device?

Just want to break this mystery I always had about firewire.
 
On some its used for connecting a firewire hard drive...on others its used for daisy chaining (I think).

6
 
qb2k5 said:
Why do most firewire sound cards have two fire ports on the back of the box?

Does this mean you have to have both firewire ports plugged into your pc, or does it mean only one port is plugged into the pc and the extra firewire port could be used for any another firewire device?

Just want to break this mystery I always had about firewire.

FireWire differs greatly from USB. It doesn't have to have a star topology leading out from a host computer. The bus can handle arbitrary topologies, including those with loops in them, iIRC. It wouldn't hurt anything to hook them both up to your computer, though it would be rather pointless to do so....

Essentially, the device is acting like a three-port hub, with one port being the audio device itself and the other two ports being presented as actual ports. The normal use of a second FireWire port would be to daisy chain a second device---a hard drive, a second audio interface, a camcorder, another computer, etc. (Warning: some interfaces may get rather confused if two computers try to talk to them at the same time. :rolleyes: )

Basically, you can use it for anything that you'd use an additional FireWire port on your computer for. Personally, I find it rather fun to chain three or four hard drives in a row. It's amazing just how far away you can put the last device and have things still work.... :D
 
Here's a few tips (I have a firewire hard drive and M-Audio Firewire 410 interface)....

DON'T DAISY CHAIN IF YOU CAN HELP IT! You are much better off using an additional Firewire card for any non-temporary firewire connections. The problem, so I've read, is that a Firewire card's bandwith pushes the limit of the PCI bus (maybe not such an issue with PCI Express). Therefore, daisy-chaining divides any speed available to the devices in the chain (BOO!)...

Here's the best way (again.. I read this stuff... I'm no expert)....

1) Buy a separate Firewire card (No motherboard firewire connections, no
video card firewire)

2) Buy a Firewire card using a Texas Instruments chip (I read this I believe on the M-Audio site).. On the other hand, I think it safe to say that it is woth having regardless of the recording interface.

3) No daisy-chaining (explained hitherto).

4) No hot-plugging (just to be cautious)... I've read stories about periphials being lost from plugging/unplugging Firewire connections while the computer and periphial is on....

Although I'm sure my post is over-kill.... I wish someone would have told me all this from the get-go....
 
peritus,

I'm daisy-chaining a Motu828mkII and a GlyphGT050 firewire drive. ZERO problems.

You might want to amend that to "don't daisy chain IF you encounter problems..."
 
TimOBrien said:
peritus,

I'm daisy-chaining a Motu828mkII and a GlyphGT050 firewire drive. ZERO problems.

You might want to amend that to "don't daisy chain IF you encounter problems..."

I stand corrected... Problems aside... daisy-chain away, I guess... :) Cheers
 
Lol.. I'm stuck with a sub-par chip at this point... Maybe on my next rebuild I'll experience Firewire Nirvana... ;)
 
peritus said:
DON'T DAISY CHAIN IF YOU CAN HELP IT! You are much better off using an additional Firewire card for any non-temporary firewire connections. The problem, so I've read, is that a Firewire card's bandwith pushes the limit of the PCI bus (maybe not such an issue with PCI Express). Therefore, daisy-chaining divides any speed available to the devices in the chain (BOO!)...

Shouldn't.... FW800 still requires less bandwidth than the original 33 MHz PCI can provide.... Maybe your motherboard chipset sucks. :D


peritus said:
1) Buy a separate Firewire card (No motherboard firewire connections, no
video card firewire)

Wouldn't surprise me if some motherboard FireWire connections were lousy. Depends on the motherboard and how badly they cut corners in the design.... :D


peritus said:
3) No daisy-chaining (explained hitherto).

4) No hot-plugging (just to be cautious)... I've read stories about periphials being lost from plugging/unplugging Firewire connections while the computer and periphial is on....

I've seen M-Audio's warning about hardware failures on hot plug. They don't say whether it hurt their gear or the computer, but they sort-of implied the latter, if memory serves. I wouldn't expect it to hurt the device; the FireWire spec says that you're supposed to be able to handle the surge current from plugging in up to a 33V power connection. The highest voltage anybody ships is probably 25 volts or so, so there's a -huge- safety margin....

About the only way I could imagine something going wrong with either the computer or the device is if it didn't properly have its signal lines protected from DC and the wires got crossed by severely torquing the plug somehow. Ideally, you should be able to flat short out a FireWire connection without causing any hardware damage. Yes, I've done this before, and no, it didn't cause any damage. Powered the machine off, though. :D

That said, I could see how some of those defective motherboard power capacitors from a few years ago might get pulled over the edge by that sort of hit. If so, the machine was failing already, and it was just bad luck that it happened on hot plug instead of when somebody turned on the power switch, IMHO.

Reminds me of a story. A few years ago, I talked to some folks who had been to the USB/FireWire plugfest at Apple's developer conference (a few years before that). They told of one "special" test machine that "complied with the FireWire spec"... and by complied, I mean that it ran at or near the maximum allowable voltage.

Anyway, at one plugfest, they reportedly pulled that thing out. Of course they warned the manufacturer reps in advance. Somehow, they were all expecting 12V on the bus (or maybe 18V). That was about the highest voltage Apple had used up to that point on any hardware. However, the letter of the FireWire spec allows for a maximum of 30V unregulated +/- 10%. That would be 33V regulated. You see where this is leading. :D

Needless to say, that little demonstration got their attention, and I haven't heard of any devices that fell over dead like that since then. The current Mac desktop hardware runs the FireWire ports at around 24-25V (thank you, Google), so I guess that's a good indication that sometimes being bastards about standards compliance results in better product consistency.... Oh, to convince somebody to build a test machine that feeds raw 110VAC to devices that don't comply with the USB Mass Storage spec.... :D
 
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