question about all those new tiny condensers that are no bigger than my thumb.

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surfmaster

surfmaster

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i wanna get a pair and i was going to pick up the msh-1a's but today i was searching around and saw those karma cardiod condensers for dirt cheap and now i'm torn. i would love to suppost mshilarious but then again, with my crappy room it would be better for me to get the cardiods, and plus they are cheaper. has anyone here used the karmas? or can someone point me to some reviews of them? thank you so much.
 
surfmaster said:
i wanna get a pair and i was going to pick up the msh-1a's but today i was searching around and saw those karma cardiod condensers for dirt cheap and now i'm torn. i would love to suppost mshilarious but then again, with my crappy room it would be better for me to get the cardiods, and plus they are cheaper. has anyone here used the karmas? or can someone point me to some reviews of them? thank you so much.
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After carefully considering your particular predicament, I'm going to reccomend that you go absolutly CRAZY..... and spend $30 and get both.

Now I know its alot of money...but I think for the situation that you're in (rock/hard place/back to the wall/guns blazing/nowhere to run...) that it's the only solution that could work.

So maybe you have to work a couple hundred hours OT down at the docks, get a second job, take that third mortgage on the house.
But I think after you spend the money - you will see that it was worth it.

Good luck and god speed. Let us know how it all works out.....
 
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Having seen the specs on the Karma mic, and knowing that it's generally simpler to build a good omni than a good cardioid, and having tried the MSH-1A myself, I'd venture a guess that you should just jump into the deep end and invest in the MSH-1A. But that's just me. YMMV.

Tim
 
Get a set of each.
I have not received my Karma mics yet. I have 6 on order.
I'm sure the MSH-1a's are a better mic. The specs on the Karmas don't look to be the greatest. The top end drops off at 13K.
 
I second the MSH-1A...buy a pair. If you have a crappy room you can move the omni's closer to the source and lessen the bleed that way. And, if you ever get into a good room, they will sound great there...I'm certain better than the Karma's.
 
gbondo9 said:
Now I know its alot of money...but I think for the situation that you're in (rock/hard place/back to the wall/guns blazing/nowhere to run....
Click to expand...

Wasn't that the liner notes to a Bon Jovi record?
 
Being a proud owner of a matched pair of the MSH-1A's, I say get the MSH-1A's. They are great little microphones. I have doubts about how the Karma microphones sound. I happen to know that the MSH-1A's sound great! Go for the sure thing.

I'm not a mic designer, but I do know that cardioid mics need vents in the back to work properly... I don't see any vents on the Karma mics. The limited frequency response tells me the didn't spend much time in designing them correctly. They appear to be a cheap marketing gimmick. After you buy them, you can say, "Wow, I have the cheapest microphone ever made." :(

I guess we'll hear soon how they sound. The first batch must be in recordists hands by now...
 
i'll probably end up just buying both i guess, i dont really need two sets but i think i can splurge on this one :p i wonder what a spaced pair on an acoustic sounds like with one omni and one cardiod. soon to find out!
 
surfmaster said:
i'll probably end up just buying both i guess, i dont really need two sets but i think i can splurge on this one :p i wonder what a spaced pair on an acoustic sounds like with one omni and one cardiod. soon to find out!
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Feel free to experiment, but with two microphones of widely different frequency response used as a stereo pair . . . it would be more of a special effect than a stereo image.

Using one pair as a close mic and one as a room mic would be more typical.
 
The thing about those Karma Cardioids is they only have a frequency range of like 100hz to 13khz which means that you loose the Very Bottom end of everything and you get absolutly no high end at all and this isn"t something you can Fix with EQ......

I think those Carma mics will only be OK for maybe spoken word or as a Cheapo Radio mic but thats it......

Cheers
 
they only go down to 100hz? thats really bad... maybe i'll just do the msh's
 
surfmaster said:
they only go down to 100hz? thats really bad... maybe i'll just do the msh's
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It isn't necessarily bad, it is just a function of the capsule. Incidentially I believe their spec is down to 50Hz, I was describing the published frequency response of commercially available 6mm cardioid capsules. It is possible the Karma capsule is different, or their case enhances the bass response.

Anyway, a mic with a bass rolloff can be a useful thing to have. Also, as a cardioid mic, it would have proximity effect, which enhances the bass response when the source is within 12 inches or less.
 
A lot of home studio folks suffer from FoO syndrome (Fear of Omnis). This is related to FoB (Fear of Bleed) and FoCRS (Fear of Crappy Room Sound).

In most cases, these fears are entirely avoidable. What is missed here is that because omnis don't have proximity effect, one can usually put them closer to the source than is practical with cardioids. So even though they are theoretically picking up room sound or bleed form other instruments, because they are so much closer to the intended source than to the room walls (or to neighboring instruments), the signal to "noise" ratio is quite high. In addition, whatever distant stuff gets into the mic will sound much better through an omni than a cardioid, because the off-axis sound is far less colored when using an omni.

So, I definitely recommend trying omnis without fear on instrument sources! I guess I'm agreeing 100% with what Gobblefisher wrote earlier. Must be something about being around Boston... ;)
 
surfmaster said:
they only go down to 100hz? thats really bad... maybe i'll just do the msh's
Click to expand...

The next batch of Karma mics should have a better freq response.
 
i looked at the specs and it says 50hz-13khz, and yeah it did say that the frequency response would be better for the next shipment. i wonder how they would sound as secondary snare mics? it would never get in the way, thats for sure. i'll probably pick up four of the karma's for tom/snare mics and then a matched pair of msh-1a's for overheads, once they all get in stock. thank you guys for your input and corrections.

-surf
 
littledog said:
A lot of home studio folks suffer from FoO syndrome (Fear of Omnis). This is related to FoB (Fear of Bleed) and FoCRS (Fear of Crappy Room Sound).

In most cases, these fears are entirely avoidable. What is missed here is that because omnis don't have proximity effect, one can usually put them closer to the source than is practical with cardioids. So even though they are theoretically picking up room sound or bleed form other instruments, because they are so much closer to the intended source than to the room walls (or to neighboring instruments), the signal to "noise" ratio is quite high. In addition, whatever distant stuff gets into the mic will sound much better through an omni than a cardioid, because the off-axis sound is far less colored when using an omni.

So, I definitely recommend trying omnis without fear on instrument sources! I guess I'm agreeing 100% with what Gobblefisher wrote earlier. Must be something about being around Boston... ;)
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, but the problem(most cases) with getting up close is you lose the body of the instrument(s) and gets thinner. It would depend on the instrument of course. IMO Omni wants the outer close field or far field of the instruments voice. Some compromises will need to be decided I suppose.

T
 
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