Query - Pre-Amp technology OLD vs. NEW

[tanberg]

recording is not a science

little Dog,i have to agree with you .In my experience as a musician AND and engineer/producer,I dont see anything wrong with overdriving a preamp,a mike,an amp or WHATEVER!
There are no rules! There is magik in the air sometimes.Some may laugh but Im sure many of you know what i mean.Sometimes things just happen and you cant duplicate them or EXPLAIN them.Its not about that.When i was first starting out,back around
1964 or so, i got yelled at for standing too close to the mike!! There was this "law" that said you had to be 8 to 10 inches away from the mic. NOW "close miking" is an accepted method of recording vocals.Ive always loved it and found it more "real" ,more "personal" like the artist was whispering in your ear..Lucinda is an example..
It is a way to get a certain sound.You just cant explain everything away in the sonic ,musical world with specs and scientific reasons why....
blackmagick was a sarcasm but i for one,DO believe that sometimes magik does occur during a performance or recording.Led Zepplin is a perfect example.You could cut it with a knife.Isaw them when they made Madison sq.Garden seem like a local bar!!But Im getting away from my point.I just wanted to say that there are no rules as to how you should use your preamp or your whatever!! If there has to be a rule it should be "whatever works to give you what you are looking(listening for)is what you should do...
IMHO

 

[Ethan Winer]

Tex,

I agree with LD that we've taken this as far as it's gonna go. I do want to address a couple of things you said, but just for the purpose of clarifying, not to perpetuate the argument.

> The one thing missing from this discussion is the concept of 'space'. <

I've been in this biz for 30+ years, but I've learned the most about space and clarity in the past eight years since I built my current studio. My room has a hard floor, angled walls and ceiling, and real bass traps. It is the best room acoustically I've ever worked in. When I want to get a realistic sound with lots of "space" I simply move the mike(s) back a few feet. Most home studios have poor acoustics, and pulling the mikes back just makes the sound hollow or muddy or distant. So home recordists learn to close-mike everything, which removes all sense of space.

Another thing that can contribute a sense of space is to add compression, especially if it is applied to just the high end. Today folks use a multi-band compressor, but in the past we used an EQ as an electronic crossover before feeding the compressor. If there's even a tiny bit of ambience, it will be brought out by the compression, and that will enhance the sense of presence.

> Some preamps capture a more even picture of the freq range over the entire dynamic range while others seem to have smaller 'sweet spots'. <

This simply is not true, except perhaps with really cheap gear like a $50 Radio Shack PA mixer. Even "prosumer" grade preamps will be reasonably flat throughout the entire audible range and across the entire span of their gain setting.

> I remember you posting in a thread about subliminal messages and you stated it was a myth. 1000s of years of science have yet to understand a fraction of how our brains work but you are some how able to state with absolute certainty exactly how our brains perceive sound. <

Subliminal messages have been tested repeatedly, and proven beyond any doubt to be a hoax. Go here:

http://www.snopes.com

and enter "subliminal" in the Search box, then select the first article returned. (The other articles returned make for good reading too!)

> sometimes there is much more to a piece of gear than can be plotted on a spec sheet. It's this undefinable 'x factor' that makes the difference between something of great value and something that is invaluable. <

This is the very crux of the matter. I maintain there is no such thing as a magical "x factor" that we can hear but not measure.

--Ethan

 

[chessrock]

Ethan, I can already pretty much guess that you are not a believer in Astrology, but if I had to guess, I would say you're a taurus. Or at least you exhibit the characteristics that are generally associated with those born in the timeframe associated with the label "taurus."

I love how you go up against traditional thought, and I respect the way you put people in their proper context. I'm not about to put Stephen Paul on any pedestals, either, just because he happens to know a lot about mics.

There's a trash collector I talk to sometimes when he comes to pick up my trash. Talk to him for 10 minutes and you'll swear, to, that there is no one alive who knows more about the waste-disposal industry. No one knows more about the subject, and no one can talk about it as elegantly and passionately as he does.

Why don't people put him on a similar pedestal? Maybe there's already a trashcollector.com bbs somewhere and I'll bet he's like Harvey over there.

Littledog, I'm glad you decided to spend so much time on this thread. It has been very enlightening. It is obvious to me that Ethan has, at times, baited you. He'll probably try to deny it, because he's sly like that. But I understand his motivations; there is no disrespect at all. The guy just likes a good debate, and he likes egging you on because he wants to hear your point of view, and he knows how to get it out of you. That's all.

Thanks again guys, for the entertaining exchange!

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Anyone want to guy a vintage horse slightly beaten?

Ive had big budgets and little budgets and nearly invisible budgets. I have always chosen the tool that fits the job like finding the right color on the canvas. I believe that specs matter, but its the subtle variations in the signal chain that make it hard to pin point why one is chosen over another.
Remember the medium in which these vintage instruments of recording were originally designed? Vinyl or acetates should sound familiar. Another thing is that the amount of system noise of a preamp was buried in bias on the older tape machines. So the amount tube or even solid state vintage equipment might not be such a good idea for high end converters in a digital setup. There is so much experimentation in getting the right sound out of these things.
Yeah Im adding to beating the horse but it doesn't care because its already dead. I could go on for days I suppose but its a continuing saga of subjectiveness. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

SoMm