Progressive Rock - First song on Rock Opera!

This is very cool, I hear very much Yes in this tune.
Genesis and ELP on the late piano work.

Mix wise I`d like some more verb on lead the guitars.

There are a few tightness issues, as its easily get in this style.

I`m a fan:cool:
 
you could probably bring up the high frequencies in the guitars a bit, but other than that and a few timing issues there was some real good guitar work on here. and that saw buzz synth is cool.
 
Strumbone said:
I really like the keyboards and guitar! Almost has a Jethro Tull feel to it. Nice!
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Thanks! Couple of people says this has a Tull feel to it. oddly enough, when I wrote this back in '04, I was only starting to get into Tull, I had only heard like Aqualung, Locomotive Breath, and Teacher....now I own 4 of their CD's and have seen them live, but its like I wrote a song being influenced by music I wouldn't really hear for another year.

This is very cool, I hear very much Yes in this tune.
Genesis and ELP on the late piano work.

Mix wise I`d like some more verb on lead the guitars.

There are a few tightness issues, as its easily get in this style.

I`m a fan
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Again, I was barely into prog rock when I wrote this. What actually inspired me to write this was watching the movie Tommy (the '75 movie, not the album or the Live at Leeds version, which I wouldn't hear for another several years). But I knew about one song from Yes and ELP (Roundabout and Lucky Man), never heard Genesis before, but now I own a couple albums from each. Its almost like independent evolution.

Interesting on the verb...I get that from other people too. The distant amp mic is the only acoustic instrument that has any reverb on it, maybe I should dial in some more...or maybe I should dial some in on the close mic?

Yeah, I'm not sure what to do with the tightness issues. The guitarist I used to record this is in high school, a metal/jazz player who had no work ethic whatsoever (i.e. I gave him 3 months to learn the album and he only learned the first 30 seconds of this song, and had to learn the solo during the recording session). I'm dumping him and using another guitarist to finish the album, but I wonder if I should go back and re-record his parts....still not sure. Cost me more money though :P

you could probably bring up the high frequencies in the guitars a bit, but other than that and a few timing issues there was some real good guitar work on here. and that saw buzz synth is cool.
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I was still trying to dial in the right sound from the amp. I eventually got it for the second song we recorded, but in this song I thought it was too shrilly, so I put a fairly low low-pass on the distant mic...maybe it was too much?

Thanks about the saw synth. I use a freeware Minimoog emulator, seems to work fairly well. The synth I was using before was Arch Avenger or something like that, some random freeware synth I downloaded, it sounded like bees buzzing. Glad I made the switch.
 
I'm hearing more Mahavishnu Orchestra, Birds of Fire Era in a few of the guitar licks. And this definitely has a more Yes feel to it than Tull in my opinion, which is awesome because Yes is my favorite band, hands down, of all time. the tone of the guitar on some of the lead double and triple stops is why I'm reminded of Steve Howe I think. You know, some of the piano stuff reminds me a little of Return To Forever, circa romantic Warrior. You know, the light-hearted majestic medieval type stuff. Very cool start for the record.
 
I've been trying to listen but click land seems to be having fun with me...it just doesn't load.
 
rayc said:
I've been trying to listen but click land seems to be having fun with me...it just doesn't load.
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Worked for me ... fwiw ... but I had to engage java, which I'd turned off.

Content is good, mix needs fixing ... it's a bit narrow in general. Drums are nice and wide, but uneven ... for sometimes they stand out, other times they fall in behind the bed ... overall, they're a little out of context in space, and they could use more punch.

The guitar presence sounds like I'm listening through a tin can ... it needs to open up and be a bit less hollow ... and spread out more.

The piano comes in and not only sounds overly midi (in tone), it's wider on the sound stage than the whole rest of the band ... like the guitarist and bassist decided to move their mono amps close together stage center, and the piano player brought this monster stereo array and REALLY turned it up. I'm just guessing, but this was mixed via a stereo patch? :D

I don't mean to dis the piece too much, for the playing and writing are very good, but the mix doesn't yet properly showcase how good.

K-
 
it really doesn't to me anyway sound much like yes or elp or anything like that...if anything it sounds more like a cross between who and a little known british band of the 70s called Gryphon who were very classically inspired.
I think it sounds cool...could use lyrics or something but it's already miles ahead of most stuff i hear because there's some arranging going on. impressive!
 
K-dub said:
... it's a bit narrow in general. Drums are nice and wide, but uneven ... for sometimes they stand out, other times they fall in behind the bed ... overall, they're a little out of context in space, and they could use more punch.
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I wish to make this clarification...everything except for the stereo recorded instruments (which are the drums and piano) are still in mono, I have not panned them yet. I'm waiting until I get vocals done before I do the final touches. Perhaps the drums' lack of punch is because I don't use a compressor on the overheads?

The guitar presence sounds like I'm listening through a tin can ... it needs to open up and be a bit less hollow ... and spread out more.
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Yeah someone earlier mentioned there weren't enough highs, as I killed off a lot in EQ. I'm bringing them back, and adding in reverb, which will help let it sit in the mix more and hopefully maintain presence. And its hard to make it 'spread out' more when it was not recorded in stereo (e609 on grill, fathead II further away) but I can definitly pan the lead and rhythm guitars around, and I'm sure that will help.

The piano comes in and not only sounds overly midi (in tone), it's wider on the sound stage than the whole rest of the band ... like the guitarist and bassist decided to move their mono amps close together stage center, and the piano player brought this monster stereo array and REALLY turned it up. I'm just guessing, but this was mixed via a stereo patch? :D
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Interesting on the piano sounding like Midi...any ideas on how I can change that? Maybe my high shelf is too high...anyway, about the stereo spread, well, yes, it is wider than the other instruments because its the only thing that is panned aside from the drums. I helped spread the panning out by using a higher high-pass on the treble mic to seperate the highs from the lows more....do you think this is too much? Also, yes, this is a real upright piano.

I don't mean to dis the piece too much, for the playing and writing are very good, but the mix doesn't yet properly showcase how good.

K-
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Thank you, I appreciate it. I'll try modifying a few things.

it really doesn't to me anyway sound much like yes or elp or anything like that...if anything it sounds more like a cross between who and a little known british band of the 70s called Gryphon who were very classically inspired.
I think it sounds cool...could use lyrics or something but it's already miles ahead of most stuff i hear because there's some arranging going on. impressive!
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Nice! Seeing as how I started writing this album (and this song in particular) days after seeing the film version of Tommy, I can totally understand The Who influence. Never heard of Gryphon, but should probably check them out.

Yes, there will be lyrics in the beginning. Were you the one who posted the other recent prog rock song here? Sounds like it came straight from 1971, good job :)

EDIT: So I went ahead and did some changes to the mix. Apparently there was this HUGE 2k notch on the close guitar mic, so I knocked that mostly out of the way, knocked a bit more out of the distant mic, modified the piano EQ some. I making a new link so you guys can compare
 
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Context is what defines what you do with the panning, SF. It's okay to use pinpoint panning on certain elements, while retaining stereo on others ... but make sure that the band still sounds like, well ... a natural band ... and not some Frankensteinish studio rendition of a band. (not that's what you did, that's what you want to avoid)

I would add more compression on the overheads ... for the toms drop the drum levels down when played, and need to come more forward. Watch for splashy washy on the cymbals as you perform the compression. Try to pop the toms w/o washing out the cymbals.

The piano ... maybe it's how it's tracked? I'm not certain you can change the tone that much ... but yes, outside of finding a completely different instrument, the highs can come back, and try to give it more meat. Upright pianos are a cursed instrument to get to track right ... they always sound oddly unnatural -- in a not so good way. Good luck w/ that. Also, I would probably avoid "across the top" panning treatment. Keeping it large and wide, fine, but center stage ... wide left/right ... odd context. I'd lean it one side or the other ...

I would then better open up the lead guitar, and fix the tone ... but it is a feature, and should be treated as such. Again, I'd spread the sound out wide, and probably put it on the opposite side of the piano to balance the sound.
 
this gives the impression that the tempo is changing a bit. Piano is kinda that honky tonk sound, and maybe a better choice might work. The gtr could tighten up on the timing too.

Very nice writing. as Kdub said, the recording isn't doing the song justice. Seems like a lot of stuff up the middle with the exception of some split drum room mics.

I do hear some Steve Howe in this.... Relayer album.

What kind of guitar are you using?
 
Cool mang.

I like the piano. Have it tuned when you have an opportunity. The stereo effect is well done.

Kick, snare, and toms could stand out a bit more. I think there are portions of the song a good example of which can be found around 3:30, where a stronger rhythmic element would help glue things together.

There are also some sections in which instruments are not jiving with one another rhythmically. My vote would be for the drummer to use a click when recording.

All and all this is a good organic sounding recording, pretty sparing of reverb, and needing some separation of instruments in the low mid range.

Nice work.
 
mixmkr said:
this gives the impression that the tempo is changing a bit.
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A lot, actually. You should see the tempo chart...starts at 81, jumps to 86, jumps to 90, speeds up to 136, jumps to 144, etc...

Piano is kinda that honky tonk sound, and maybe a better choice might work.
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Yeah, I already spent a bit of money for the pianist, but all he had was an upright at his parent's house. I had to fire him to complete the final 3 songs on the album, but the piano I'm using now is this great baby grand. I'm just trying to get this album done, and having to re-record ALL the piano parts would be a bitch, and even more money thrown at this.

The gtr could tighten up on the timing too.
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I've been getting that alot. Fired that guitarist too, but we got 3 songs done (luckily I didn't have to pay him). Again, I only want to hire a guy to finish up the rest of the album.

Very nice writing. as Kdub said, the recording isn't doing the song justice. Seems like a lot of stuff up the middle with the exception of some split drum room mics.
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Again, nothing is panned. Although I finally worked out a stereo mix earlier today. I haven't uploaded it yet but it clears a lot up. Really opens up room for the bass, now I can finally get the bass loud enough without muddying shit up.

What kind of guitar are you using?
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I'm not sure what he used. Some guitar that's designed for metal. We did go through my band's guitarist amp (A Mesa Triple Rectifier I believe)...I dunno, you guys are making me want to redo this first song :P

I like the piano. Have it tuned when you have an opportunity. The stereo effect is well done.
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Thanks, I like the stereo spread too! Not my piano, so can't tune it. my piano actually sounds worse!

Kick, snare, and toms could stand out a bit more. I think there are portions of the song a good example of which can be found around 3:30, where a stronger rhythmic element would help glue things together.
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Did you say....drums need to be louder? Thank you, you just made my day :)

There are also some sections in which instruments are not jiving with one another rhythmically. My vote would be for the drummer to use a click when recording.
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I did

Nice work.
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Thank you, appreciate the comments!
 
I understand about the money but you could save squids and end up with a serverly compromised piece of music.
The intro and a few other bits have small guitarist fluffs (but then again I thought the solo in 8 Miles High was full of them until someone explained the modal etc approach - still sounds like fluffed runs to me though).
THis could be really good - take care wo finish in such a way that it PLEASES YOU!
The writing and arrangements are really cool.
 
Okay, here it goes, an early stereo mix:



Things I changed:

Obviously, panned everything to appropriate locations
Raised the drums *slightly*
Brought back most the highs I cut out of the lead guitar
Brought up the bass guitar since there's more room in the center
 
This is pretty cool stuff. I can imagine it being part of a rock opera. Tightness issues here and there. Guitar sound could sound a bit better.
Very interesting tune, sounds like vintage 70's to me.

Joey :):):):)
 
I'm hearing some tuning issues that maybe I didn't catch first time around. The pno has to go though, especially played against the synth. Like Honky tonk meets Arp 2600

yeah..the gtrs are out of tune and the timing issues still as well.

I see this as a "different" mix.... neither better or worse, just different.
 
I have a terrible ear as far as intonation goes. I have perfect pitch, but it isn't precise. I can tell you what a note is, but unless its grossly out of tune I can't really pick it up. Even when played with other instruments its hard to tell until its obvious. The guitar sounded fine to me, and until recently so did the piano.

I'll have to talk to my new pianist and see if she's willing to re-record at least some of the tracks that the old one did...I'll probably just give her the royalties I was planning on giving the old guy.
 
Interesting. I like the arrangement. Good luck finding someone to sing.

My only suggestion would be, and of course this is just what I would do if I were recording it myself, is to give it more of a modern touch. If you are using old Jethro Tull stuff as your reference, then you've nailed it pretty well, but even bands that played in the 70's have a more modern feel when they record today, while keeping the style the same.

I would suggest a little tighter, less roomy sound if you wanted to make it sound like it was recorded today, and probably get a bit more low end in there too. If you are going all out for the 70's style as well as the 70's recording style, then keep doing what you're doing, because you've pretty much nailed it.
 
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