Producing top and bottom panning??

  • Thread starter Thread starter mtardif
  • Start date Start date
still no explanation for the top-bottom thing, the examples deal with the panning-through-delay issue.
it states that our ears hear 360° because our brain calculates the time differences but gives no explanation of how to imitate that effect in a mix.
 
First things first.....

Thats sucks if my music isn't showing up because I have music up right now. And why do you all the sudden want to analyze it? Because I disagreed with you?

Frequencies and waveforms are simple nonsense. Go read a quantum physics book. You can do more or less anything with a wave form.

Why don't you search the internet a little bit for how all this works. I don't feel like typing a whole damn book right now.
 
Outlaws said:
First things first.....


Why don't you search the internet a little bit for how all this works. I don't feel like typing a whole damn book right now.
Click to expand...



thank you sir for your kind reply (at least i think you were talking to me ?!)
 
hey guys,

i did recordings with an okm (originalkopfmikrofon-original-head-mike), that delivers very nice recording, esp. when you listen with headphones. it looks like a cheap walkman-headphone, is plugged into your ears (on your original head) and makes it possible to perceive sound-directions very well.
i recorded my kids at home, running and riding on bikes back and forth. it's so realistic, that you turn your head around to look who's behind you and all that.
often i used it for extra-tracks on music-recordings. this can be done with two good condensers too, using the real ear-distance of ~17cm and directions and a "ball"-characteristic (sorry, i don't know the correct english term).
makes cooool effects!


mQs
 
Quote: by outlaws.
Thats sucks if my music isn't showing up because I have music up right now. And why do you all the sudden want to analyze it? Because I disagreed with you?

Sorry dude. When people talk about weird interesting recording concepts the first thing I do is see if I can hear some of what they create. I do it all the time. And i've discovered some real cool stuff that way. If for example I thought you were a complete idiot then I wouldnt bother. Thats how I discovered the cool stuff you hear from Sluice. Specially since your a guitarist. BTW have a listen to some of the guitar work that B.SABBATH has done. Very interesting for sure.
And to say "Go read a quantum physics book" and "Why don't you go search the internet!" is a bit up the arse.

........
 
Sorry Scott,

I misread. Though it was wetteke.
There is stuff up on my site. Just nothing to demonstrate the RSS. I haven't actually used it on that many peices of music because it does affect the initial sound a good deal.
 
Direction or location of sound can be achieved.

I'm not sure who in this forums doesn't believe that sound can be heard from top or bottom is mistaken. If anyone has heard or listened to a surround sound system will understand an realize that sound can seem to come from pretty much any direction in any location.

Now as to how some direction effects are created with delays is a whole another topic in itself. If I remember correctly in order to do this you have to use a tap delay and offsetting the taps in order to create the effect or illusion.

I hope this is enough info to get started. If not try a search with the words "mono to stereo effects/ illusions". You should come up with something.

later
sonicpaint
 
Damn, I'm glad I spawned a topic that's so debatable :D Needless to say, this has all been helpful, thanks all! Keep'em coming!
 
this can be done with two good condensers too, using the real ear-distance of ~17cm and directions and a "ball"-characteristic (sorry, i don't know the correct english term).
makes cooool effects!

Omnidirectional. Yes, that's cool - i'd love to have an classical orchestra playing, and run across it with that kind of miking - unfortunately with the kind of records i'm working at (rock, rough and raw) that don't seem to be in the near future. ;)

And now the direction issues...

Panning; that's of course Left and Right
Reverberation; that's Front and Back
Frequency; now we're opening a can of worms. The correct answer would be Up and Down, but psychoacoustics (i use this word everyday:) ) affect this so, that in some ways it also affects Front and Back.

Ok, now to the difficult part. You know when you're driving a car, and other cars pass you by; they sound like nyaWWWvouu... that's called the Doppler effect (same with leslie speakers and police sirens). That's sort of comb filtering, and by that sort of comb filtering you can do all kinds of surround effects. Psychoacoustics. Your ears tell by filtering, if the sound is supposed to come from front or back of you.

Other psychoacousticswise adjustable things are the compression timing and reverb predelay.

Sorry, got to stop, have a train to catch.
 
wetteke said:
you still haven't explained how top-bottom panning works you arrogant shit!!!
Click to expand...

Well I sure as hell am not going to explain to you now.

If you really care you would look it up. You obviously have the internet. Its only a click or two away. Why should I have to type up two pages worth of shit for you?
 
Hey slabrock, thats more of a true stereo recording technique.
It still wont give you up and down. Only a very good stereo image.
I truely believe that its a playback problem. You need to have a top and bottom speaker to genuinly hear things properly from top to bottom. And as well as panning you luff things up and down too. I have heard some increadable sounding surround sound systems. I work in the film industry and nearly everyones got a setup. And things come from all around thats for sure. But definatelly not from top to bottom. Even with high mounted satelites. Maybe its just my ears. Maybe someone else can hear sounds comeing clearly from directly above, but I definatelly havn't. I asked a guy at fox studio who does audio for film and he told me it hasn't (not can't) be done without having speakers in the roof pointing down. Although the high mounted satelites help. We could both be wrong maybe....

Where's Blue Bear. He'd have a good idea too.
 
"And things come from all around thats for sure. But definatelly not from top to bottom. Even with high mounted satelites."

i don't think this top-bottom effect is all that spectacular, nothing like surround. it's just the faint impression that some sounds come more from the top and some more from the bottom. and i'm still convinced it's a EQ-job, bright sounds appear to come from higher up than , well, non-bright sounds.


outlaws, i know how it works, it's YOUR explanation i'm interested in. (btw you won't find much about it on the net)
 
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I'm going to do an experiment.

Guys to settle this once and for all I'm going to do a few tests and post the test for everyone to have a listen. Then we will see.

sonicpaint
 
So far things don't look good....

wetteke's points above, so far has been right on the money and I haven't been able to get any given sound coming from up or down for that matter. I haven't finished yet (do to time) but I will soon. It might be that wetteke is right, you can't get up or down.

Like I said I'll post the results when I'm done.

Later
sonicpaint
 
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