Problems with rhythms in pop melodies

[rickd909]

Hi,

I can't seem to get the right 'feel' in the rythmic elements of my pop vocal melodies. All the biggest artists have a 'solid' feel in the rhythm of the lyric, but I can't seem to nail it.

I understand that it is somewhat intuitive and can't be learned, but any pointers would help. Thanks.

Songs can be found at http://www.myspace.com/516463907

 

[miroslav]

So lets clear this up before we go further....

Are you really Sonya Titus (interesting last name )...'cuz that's the MySpace page your link went to, or are you just a shill for her and this is nothing more than promotional SPAM...(you've posted similar SPAM in three other threads in the last 2 hours)...
...or are you REALLY saying you want to have her kind of vocal rhythm style?

How about you post up an example of YOUR music where you feel the vocal has poor rhythm, and we'll go from there.

 

[grimtraveller]

You know, I was just going to ask exactly the same question ! Are you actually Sonia Titus ? If you are, I can't see why you're asking the question. If you're not, why are we being sent to her page ? Give us an answer, I don't want to start getting cynical in my old age.

 

[miroslav]

Those are the type of low-budget promotional tactics used by a lot of MySpace-type artists.

They just want people to 1.) hit the webpage...and 2.) click on at least one of the songs.
Those page/song hits are recorded...which then helps drive up the interest in that "artists" as other people begin to think he/she is popular because of the hits/play count is going up.

I don't see anything wrong with that in general, it’s tough to get a break out there...but they should do it in a open marketing campaign, and not with some cheap cover.
And guess what...many websites/forums don’t like ANY marketing if you are not a regular member of those sites/forums.

It's like the fuckers that send flyers via post to "current resident"...and you come home to a mailbox full of garbage. There really should be a law against sending mail to "current resident"!

 

[rickd909]

I am part of the songwriting and production team and Sonya is our artist. Her singing and vocal style is growing as our production skills and songwriting skills are growing, We are sort of helping eachother to move forward. All I did was direct you to her artist page. I could have directed you to the same tracks on our production page. We have genuinely hit this barrier of not quite understanding the way rhythm on pop vocal melodies really works and wondered if anyone had any pointers. Our melodies and rhythms don't have that solid feel and shape to them.

 

[grimtraveller]

If the first song on there is an example of the problem you have, then I think you're being kind of harsh on yourselves. They sound OK to me. They don't sound lacking in the vocal rhythm sector to me. On the other hand, that's a pretty wide question. Because there have been tens of thousands of pop vocals and there are so many different rhythmic styles employed. Also a little difference here and there isn't always a bad thing. But perhaps you could listen to a whole series of 'pop' records, but with a specific ear out for the melody and the rhythm of the words. Ask yourself if yours are really that far off the mark. Another consideration - do you really just want your stuff to sound like everyone elses' ?

 

[rickd909]

thanks for the reply grimtraveller.

I think you are right about listening out for the rhythm of the words on other pop songs. Can never do enough of that, and I agree that I would never want it to sound like anyone else. We have always come from the standpoint of doing what sounds right to us but then standing back and looking at how it could improve. In my opinion when you look at songwriters such as Max Martin, he seems to have a grasp of rhythm and melody, that I would love to understand...but I suppose that just comes intuitively, .....and with time and patience..!

 

[grimtraveller]

a grasp of rhythm and melody, that I would love to understand...but I suppose that just comes intuitively, .....and with time and patience..!

Yeah, just keep at it, like alot of things in this craft, time, patience and practice. And I'll reiterate what I said about the songs on the link site you gave - in terms of the rhythm of the words and how they interract with the melody, they sound OK to me. They don't throw me for a loop at all.

 

[miroslav]

We have genuinely hit this barrier of not quite understanding the way rhythm on pop vocal melodies really works and wondered if anyone had any pointers. Our melodies and rhythms don't have that solid feel and shape to them.

It appeared a bit spamish, since you hit a few other threads all at the same time and dropped your links.

AFA your production style...here's an idea for you since you seem to be looking for a handle.

Break some new ground (or different ground) and lose the Autotune "chirp" effect...it's DEAD...DATED...OVERUSED!
Likewise...lose some of the excess "ear candy" and let the song come through...maybe then her vocal style would also fall into place.

She has a decent voice, and I think the songs could even sound pretty good minus the overused "chirps" and "ear candy" effects. Those kinds of productions all sound like a Pinball game on TILT!!!
Not to mention that all those orchestra hits and synth patches make the songs sound a bit dated.....

She just needs to work on the phrasing...it's as though she hasn't quite decided how she wants to sing it, which makes the vocal rhythm sound fumbled at times...especially on "Devils Aim".

 

[onestu3]

There is this guy named Pat Pattison, he is a teacher at Berkley School of Music and he says that the way we listen to music is the way we listen to someone speaking. So the best thing to do is sit in silence with the lyrics you want to fix in hand. Read each line to someone else, four or five times. DO NOT sing the line, just say it to them. Your voice will naturally add stresses to certain syllables to emphasize your point. Put a little marker above each syllable that you emphasize, usually about 2 per line, and when you sing it, hold those notes longer than the rest or make them louder or higher pitched. Use those varingly while doing this and I think it might be a good start.