Principles behind mic positioning

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Does anyone have a good link/article about some philosophies behind mic positioning? I'm getting some really boxy/grating raw vocal tracks no matter which mic (at4040, sterling st51, sm58) or which position I place it in or which distance from my mouth (6"-1.5'). I'm going to try rotating it 15 degrees so I'm not singing straight in, but I'm a dude that likes reading the "why's" about what he's doing, plus I could learn a few other things from it as well. I'll scope out Sound on Sound and other places, but if someone has some kind "recording vocals for dummies" guide, I'd appreciate it. :) thanks

edit: I should state that it's entirely possible my singing technique isn't the best it can be. But I know lots of peeps in the clinic that aren't vocalists with training, yet their vocals sound clear, natural, and have no blaring frequencies. I have a very, very strong chest and nasal resonance when I sing, which can be good for singing live and getting a loud sound, but not great for recording.
 
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I don't have a link but with vocals, sometimes the sound of a singers voice develops in front of their face instead of in their mouth.

For these guys, I put the mic pointing at the bridge of their nose. Then I use the pop filter to give them a target to sing into, so they don't tilt their head back to sing into the mic.

Singing straight into a mic can be like pointing a microscope at the back of the singer's throat. If that isn't where the sound develops, it can sound trashy or incomplete.
 
Farview said:
I don't have a link but with vocals, sometimes the sound of a singers voice develops in front of their face instead of in their mouth.

For these guys, I put the mic pointing at the bridge of their nose. Then I use the pop filter to give them a target to sing into, so they don't tilt their head back to sing into the mic.

Singing straight into a mic can be like pointing a microscope at the back of the singer's throat. If that isn't where the sound develops, it can sound trashy or incomplete.
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I see what you're saying. alright, good points, I'll give that a shot too. thanks man
 
andrushkiwt said:
edit: I should state that it's entirely possible my singing technique
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It's not your technique.

Just for the record, I don't find your vocal sound nasally so much as, like I mentioned, the high's are a little grating.

I just realized I never asked you what your signal chain is, especially for recording.

Just a personal experience: The best my vocal tracks ever sounded was when I stopped thinking I need to compress on the way in, or use an external pre-amp to track. Years ago, I had a pretty nice Focusrite pre-amp and I thought it would be the "secret" to my vocal sound. But I still couldn't get rid of boxiness and general un-pleasantness. I wouldn't allow myself to believe it was the pre-amp, because we all know that when you spend hundreds of dollars on something, you need to convince yourself that it's not the problem. :D

Anyway, long story short, I don't know your chain so it might not even apply to you. But un-plug everything, plug your mic straight into your inter-face and be honest with yourself about whether it sounds better or not. Do a REAL A/B with and without whatever you're doing now.
 
RAMI said:
I just realized I never asked you what your signal chain is, especially for recording.
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I tracked vocals on Wednesday morning on a new song for a couple hours. At the time, everything sounded ok. I used 3 mics and did complete run-throughs of the song on 1 mic at a time, 9 times total. So, 3 takes for each mic. On the way in, I had the mics into the AudioBox (gain way down, no clipping), then EQ w/ HP at 100hz, de-esser 20:1 acting on 6khz-20khz, slight comp (3db red) and some verb (need that to sing right). On the way in, through my tracking phones, everything sounded great. I did all 9 takes and then left it alone for the day.

I came back to it yesterday and listened with all the inserts turned off. It sounds terrible. It's boxy. It's grating. Each mic too - although the Sterling was less abrasive. For investigative purposes only, I put a MBC on it and worked in each of the bands. I spent 30 mins playing around with it and soloing different areas; moving the parameters of each band and trying to find which ones were the problem areas. It sounded much better with a 6db cut in between 500hz-1.5khz. I don't want to use MBC as a default, and I just wanted to zone in more precisely on the problem zone. I can post a clip of the raw vocal tracks, if that would help. It'd be later tonight though.

I am singing almost directly into it, like I said, or maybe it's a touch off center - like 5 degrees or something.
 
Turn off the high pass, de-Esser, etc... just sing. You can add all that stuff after the fact, and have a better idea of the context of the mix.

Another problem people have is dealing with the difference between what your voice sounds like in your head vs. What it sounds like to everyone else. Your voice is always thinner than you think it is. So it sounds fine to everyone but you.
 
If it is consistent boxiness from mic to mic, as well as your distance from mic, then a little EQ is needed. Scoop out the 300-600Hz range a little - play with your EQ settings- first boost around 450 with a wide Q and see if it truly gets horrible, experiment with frequency and Q. I usually scoop in that region, and boost a little in the 'air', over 12K. You've got to work with what you got, right?
 
mjbphotos said:
If it is consistent boxiness from mic to mic, as well as your distance from mic, then a little EQ is needed. Scoop out the 300-600Hz range a little - play with your EQ settings- first boost around 450 with a wide Q and see if it truly gets horrible, experiment with frequency and Q. I usually scoop in that region, and boost a little in the 'air', over 12K. You've got to work with what you got, right?
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I don't think so. I need to improve the sound going in. I'm doing something not-so-well. The raw track should be able to go into the track and sit fairly well with a little verb and comp, maybe some EQ notches. But the raw track now sounds horrific. I'll put a dropbox file in here tonight and let you guys see what I'm talking about.
 
Let me just preface by saying that I don't think your vocals sound bad. They can just sound smoother.

Having said that, you've got to find the problem/solution. If you think it's your room, then maybe you should consider using a dynamic rather than a condenser. If it's not the room, then something in the chain is the problem, which is why we're suggesting just plugging straight in and not adding anything. You can then manipulate your raw recording. I would still try to find the problem, whether it's tracking too hot, or something. If it's boxy, make sure you're not doing something like recording in a closet because that's the worst place to record anything.

I just think there's something you're over-looking because even a shitty singer in a less than ideal room should be able to plug in a mic and get a decent sound without too much boxiness or sibulence. Almost all tracks need at least some EQ, but it shouldn't be needed to "salvage" a track.
 
RAMI said:
Let me just preface by saying that I don't think your vocals sound bad. They can just sound smoother.

Having said that, you've got to find the problem/solution. If you think it's your room, then maybe you should consider using a dynamic rather than a condenser. If it's not the room, then something in the chain is the problem, which is why we're suggesting just plugging straight in and not adding anything. You can then manipulate your raw recording. I would still try to find the problem, whether it's tracking too hot, or something. If it's boxy, make sure you're not doing something like recording in a closet because that's the worst place to record anything.

I just think there's something you're over-looking because even a shitty singer in a less than ideal room should be able to plug in a mic and get a decent sound without too much boxiness or sibulence. Almost all tracks need at least some EQ, but it shouldn't be needed to "salvage" a track.
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I agree, there's something before the chain though. You'll see the raw track later. I'll post it in a little bit. Leaving soon
 
Are you saying that you are just monitoring with the de-Esser and all that, but it isn't getting recorded that way?
 
Farview said:
Are you saying that you are just monitoring with the de-Esser and all that, but it isn't getting recorded that way?
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Correct. That's monitoring. What goes in is raw. I can insert whatever onto the channel when singing but the raw track is still there and it's the raw track that sounds abrasive and hard to listen to. I have a feeling it should be smooth and fit in the mix without a ton of work.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Correct. That's monitoring. What goes in is raw. I can insert whatever onto the channel when singing but the raw track is still there and it's the raw track that sounds abrasive and hard to listen to. I have a feeling it should be smooth and fit in the mix without a ton of work.
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I totally mis-understood man, I apologize. I'm glad Farview asked. I thought you were recording all that on the way in.
 
Which DAW you use? You probably already told me, but I don't remember.
 
RAMI said:
Which DAW you use? You probably already told me, but I don't remember.
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S1 Pro.

You guys want drop box or is there a way to make a little stream thing here, like an insert audio file with a button to press to play..? Can't insert to your daw though. So tell me which is preferred
 
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