PreSonus MP20 worth buying

  • Thread starter Thread starter deepwater
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mp20

Know where to buy mp20's? Anyone selling one?
Im looking for another one, Ebay is depleted of used ones right now.
Im sure they will show up, but Im impatient!!

M
 
finally a lot of people realise what i have been saying to friends for years. its all in the op amps. i have friends who never believe me on this till i show them just by subbing op amps. you can make a nice mic preamp for 20 bucks out of a couple of high quality opamps. just get hold of the LT1115 schematic (pdf) from linear technology, build a test rig, start substituting other op amps ,
add a second buffer op amp stage with a volume knob and you have a mic pre. youll just need a bipolar power supply to supply to a number of circuits you can build using this pdf. i think digikey might sell even units that output something like +-15 volts DC.
but dont attempt this unless you take a electronics course in op amps so you know how to build circuits safely.
as i said before many manufacturers will send you free samples of high quality op amps to try.
also on the net you will see lots of mic pre schematics. eg: on the rane site, jensen transformers or just put a search into google for "mic pre schematic".
loads of schematics will show.
hope this helps someone out there.
imho other than the op 134 and ilk other op amps i like for custom diy mic pre;s are op37, max437, ha5137 , LT1028, as just examples of many.
and maybe try AD797.
 
I just bought an MP20 and am going to do this 'upgrade'. Just wanted to ask of those who have tried it, amongs the different op amps mentioned in this post, which did you like the best and why...
 
mshilarious said:
Well I don't have an RNP, but I did just pick up an MP20, so I can give a review of it:

First off I don't regard them as directly comparable because it's easier to get used MP20s and I don't buy anything new. Used RNPs are hardly discounted at all, so the used MP20 is about $125 cheaper.

There are no worries about wallwarts or rackmounts. Ultimately those aren't sound considerations, but such practical matters are important to me. It would be tough for me to accomodate wallwarts in my rack setup. It also has many more LEDs on its meter than an RNP which is nice but not essential.

Anyway, the unit has a couple of other clever features: a stereo bus & a headphone amp. I wouldn't want that on every preamp I have, or even most of them, but it's nice to have on one unit since I only have a virtual patchbay. I can try out mics, guitars, stereo mic patterns, etc. without firing up the entire rack.

It also has one totally useless feature: the IDSS control. Supposedly this give you a tube-like sound. Full disclosure: I am a fan of cheap tube pres for guitar DI. The IDSS does not sound like a cheap tube pre, it sounds like a Poo control. Instead of adding musical harmonic distortion, it subtracts high end in a very displeasing fashion. Thank you, but the tone control on my guitar works just fine.

Basically the unit generates a nice clean sound. Great as a bass DI, tight low end. Not so good as a guitar DI (I prefer my tewbs!), at least with my LP. Probably OK for a Tele.

Unfortunately I have my favored vocal mic, the SM7, out on loan, so I reserve comment on vocals. I tried a KSM33, SM57, and MD421, but I sound bad on all those mics. I accurately heard myself as a combo of Neil Young and Axl Rose. Did it make the SM57 sound like a great mic? A little I guess. I'm not sure I can be objective about that.

So instead I plugged in an SM81 and moved on to steel string guitar. That was very nice, very accurate. I hit +28dB on the meter several times without clipping. Next I tried digeridoo, also successful. Now the SM81 is undoubtedly a great mic and to me just always sounds good unless somebody starts singing. The MP20 didn't muck it up at all.

Basically I would describe this pre as having little to no character (unless you turn up the Poo control). The character of the mics was very obvious. It has a number of handy features. If you are looking for a warm preamp or a sparkly one, this isn't it. I'd describe it as more of a workhorse, which is the role it will play in my studio.


Note: the unit I bought is 1999, and has Jensen transformers. I've heard newer units use something else but I don't know if that's true or if it makes a difference.


LOL!!! Poo Control...
 
Thanks Altruist, but...
I wasn't actually looking for a review on the MP20, I was wanting to know some of the opinions of the guys who had done the Op Amp and/or transformer swap in the MP20 or M80... Like which Op Amps had brighter/darker tones if any... More/less noise... And whey they liked ever which one they liked...
 
Zetajazz44 said:
Thanks Altruist, but...
I wasn't actually looking for a review on the MP20, I was wanting to know some of the opinions of the guys who had done the Op Amp and/or transformer swap in the MP20 or M80... Like which Op Amps had brighter/darker tones if any... More/less noise... And whey they liked ever which one they liked...

Opamps swap usually don't make a big difference in tone. The key characteristics of an opamp are its speed, noise, and distortion. Faster speed and lower distortion typically translate into better transient response, yielding clearer highs and tighter lows. Basically it sounds less muddy and more detailed, but it's not like there is an EQ change. If the opamp is used in a circuit designed to distort, like a guitar pedal, then maybe there is difference in tone. I don't have experience with distortion circuits.

Most opamps used for audio don't have high noise, unless it's a really crappy preamp.

A circuit's tone will be more controlled by transformers and capacitors in the audio path.

Since the MP20 is socketed, you can go to TI's site and order a few samples of various opamps to try yourself and see what you like, it's pretty easy to do.
 
I just did a quick shootout on my MP-20 using my voice and an SM 57. After making the stangest combo of noises possible, here were my conclusions:

TI 5334 (stock):
Pretty clear, but I heard slight "edges" in the midbass and upper mids(4-7k), therefore very present.

Linear Technology LT1357 CN8:
Super clean and neutral, great transient response, more open and tighter sounding than the stock chip.

Burr Brown OPA627AP:
Very full, tight low bass, "sweeter" mids than stock, pretty open top.

Overall, I'd say I like the LT and BB better than the stock, but that's without really putting them to the test of recording rock music. I'll use these findings to pick which source pair with which op amp. I'm guessing the AT will see acoustic guitars, overheads, and snares, and the BB might get bass and kick, and electric guitars....

Also, the LT's are dirt cheap and the BB's are free from Texas Instruments! Gotta love free samples!
 
Thank you, Big Kenny.


You know, BigK ... on a side note ... You know I just swapped out the opamp chips in my Multitudinous Quintuplicator.

The difference?

Night ... and ... day. Big K.

I tell you. When opamp A was in there ... it had that brittle, "Opamp A" sound. But once I put in B ... Instant Sonic Nirvana.

Did I ever mention that every MP-20 mic pre I've ever used was broken? Like either the phantom power wouldn't work on one of the channels, or one of the LED lights was burned out or what have you. I don't know what that means, but it's been kind of an odd trend.
.
 
chessrock said:
Thank you, Big Kenny.


You know, BigK ... on a side note ... You know I just swapped out the opamp chips in my Multitudinous Quintuplicator.
.

Anybody ever try swapping the opamps in a Digilog Dynamicator :confused:
 
mshilarious said:
Anybody ever try swapping the opamps in a Digilog Dynamicator :confused:

I certainly have. And the difference isn't so much "night and day" ...

... as it is "early mid afternoon" versus "somewhat late, but not really late late morning".

.
 
chessrock said:
Did I ever mention that every MP-20 mic pre I've ever used was broken? Like either the phantom power wouldn't work on one of the channels, or one of the LED lights was burned out or what have you. I don't know what that means, but it's been kind of an odd trend.
.


Haha, too true. I have one sitting around with some kind of problem. I don't know if it is a phantom issue or something else, but I would be using it for stereo overheads and one channel would all of a sudden be super quiet; then the next day it would be fine. Coudn't trouble shoot very well with all the surface mount stuff inside, so now it sits on my floor. It was OK sounding when it worked (BurrBrown night-day mod), but not a whole lot better than a DMP3. If they were priced at $300 or 350 max, they would be a decent deal. Got mine for like $325 I think on scambay. Someday I would like to get it running but right now I have 8 channels of MUCH better stuff to use.
 
MP20 Opamp mods

I just did a quick shootout on my MP-20 using my voice and an SM 57. After making the stangest combo of noises possible, here were my conclusions:

TI 5334 (stock):
Pretty clear, but I heard slight "edges" in the midbass and upper mids(4-7k), therefore very present.

Linear Technology LT1357 CN8:
Super clean and neutral, great transient response, more open and tighter sounding than the stock chip.

Burr Brown OPA627AP:
Very full, tight low bass, "sweeter" mids than stock, pretty open top.

Overall, I'd say I like the LT and BB better than the stock, but that's without really putting them to the test of recording rock music. I'll use these findings to pick which source pair with which op amp. I'm guessing the AT will see acoustic guitars, overheads, and snares, and the BB might get bass and kick, and electric guitars....

Also, the LT's are dirt cheap and the BB's are free from Texas Instruments! Gotta love free samples!

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Well I just purchased and installed 4 Linear technologies LT1357 CN8's ($30 delivered) from Digikey and all I can say is the quote above is dead on! Mine already had the Jensens but the Opamp upgrade was cheap and for me a big bang for the buck. The difference was very obvious, much more detail. Also worth mentioning was one thread before the previous quote where MSHILARIOUS mentions the role of an Opamp in a preamp circuit. This is great information clearly explained and I found it to be very true also. The coloration will come mostly from the tranny, caps & resistors. The Opamp is more of an "Electron control gate" if you will. Good luck finding original & authentic Burr Brown Opams. I couldn't so I went with the Linear Tech one's.
Beware of the Hong Kong counterfeiters on Ebay! I traded a Sennhieser MD421 for this pre and am very happy with it!
 
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