Preamp upgrade Question (Behringer MX series to M-Audio DMP3)

[BJW]

Hey,

I went out and ordered a DMP-3 with an option to return it no questions asked within 30 days. I currently use a behringer mx series mixer for my pre's, then I go from the direct outs on the mixer to my Delta 44 sound card and use cubase. I have a decent computer than can handle it all. I plan on doing some back-to-back comparisons (I take it you call that A/B'ing) of the dmp3 and the berry pre's to see if it's really worth the 135 or whatever I ordered it for (I thought that was a pretty good deal). You guys think I'll be returning it or keeping it? Keep in mind I'm on a small budget, so if I could have got a RNP or something higher end, I would have saved up for it, but I'm trying to save some cash for other more important investments (haha, if those exist).

The other thing I'm thinking. The berry mixer I use is an MX-2004A, and they go for about $150 on ebay. I'm thinking I'm going to sell the MX and turn right around and buy a berry UB-802 for $50 or so. I figure I'll have 2 pre's from the dmp3 and all I have are 2 more inputs, so what's the point of having a 20 channel mixer? I've heard over and over again that the berry UB pre's are far above the old MX pre's. Sound like a plan? I know berry has a terrible rep, but like I said, I'm on a tight budget, and I need a mixer (basically for the combo of the pre's and headphones). I was thinking maybe I could save up a bit for a studio projects vtb-1 since it gets some good reviews, that way I'd have the DMP-3, the vtb-1, and the berry UB pre's, so I could get several different options for a pretty low price.

Little more info (about mic's) I use an sm-57 (which I'm hoping, and I've read, that a better pre will really open up the sound on). I use the 57 for instrument recording along with my LD condensor, which is a Superlux. I also use the superlux for vocals. The superlux sounds kind of harsh and thin to my ears (especially on vocals). I bought it about 5 or 6 years ago, and it was a $100 LD condensor, so that might be why it sounds that way. I want to try out a Studio Projects B1. I can get a pretty decent guitar sound if I run my guitar straight in (it's a really nice takamine acoustic/electric) and mice the sound hole and the bridge, so 3 tracks for one guitar - sounds pretty full, especially if I pan the 2 mics right and left a bit. The thing is, i've gotten a much fuller sound (especially on vocals) recording myself live with an sm-58 and a decent digital mixer (I have no idea what kind it was), so I'm thinking the mic pre's in the mixer being higher quality than my berry had a lot to do with it.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.

-Brian

I'll post a link to some of the stuff I've recorded, so you guys can see the quality I'm getting out of my setup with the berry mx pre's and my 2 mic's.

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?songs=261004&T=7157

If that doesn't work, let me know

Note* The stuff on the acidplanet site that says "live" was recorded with the sm-58 and the digital mixer I was talking about. That's the stuff that I think sounds better (vocally, not with the guitar - the acoutic was just recorded straight in, so it doesn't sound all that good)

 

[Halion]

I'd like to know that aswell. Right now I'm using a Behringer Mic100 Tube preamp, but with my logic of tubes being a complicated thing and the price behringer is charging just doesn't match. Like, a very, very cheap all-tube guitar amp already costs a few hundred bucks, while these Behringer things cost 40 bucks. However, I cannot say that I can actually hear the low quality of this thing. It works fine, but I have absolutely no frame of reverence, and my monitors are so-so. I notice noise when cranked, but then again, that could very well (and probably partially is) be coming from my computer (yes, I'm a 1 room recorder and mixer).

So lets say I reduce the noise from my PC by simply boarding up everything around it when recording with mics, would a DMP-3 do any good, with a LDC or 57?

 

[BJW]

What's up halion, and fellow one-room studio guy (or girl). I'm gonna try this trick to reduce room noise (my computer sounds like a jet engine and I've got hard-wood floors). I've collected a bunch of styrofoam from work (from packages that we recieve). I've got a little closet, but big enough that I can stand and sing in it and sit on a stool with a guitar. I'm going to somehow line the door and back wall with the styrofoam and put some on the floor (hard wood floors). I've got clothes hanging on either side, so maybe I can get a fairly dead space. I won't really be able to try this very extensively for another 2 weeks (studying hard for an upcoming test), but once I do I'll sure let you know if it makes a difference.

Also, I'll get the DMP-3 in a few days (I hope. . .however fast guitar center gets it in) and I'll sure let you know how it compares to my old berry mixer.

I mostly record acoustic guitar and vocals. I don't know what you record mainly, but I'll let you know how the pre fares on those sources. I also bought an M-audio Radium 61 with the dmp3, so I'm boldly diving into the world of MIDI. I just need some good free VSTi's.

-Brian

 

[Treeline]

Sounds like a pretty good plan to get cranking at this level. I bet that when you hear the SM57 through the DMP you won't want to let either one out of your sight. The DMP3 is a bit on the hot side, so set the high gain / low gain switch on the LOW setting until you get used to it a bit. But the SM57 loves it.

I use my DMP for just about everything. It's better than my Mackie preamps, and I expect it'll smoke the Behringer.

I also use the SP B1 and find it almost as useful as the SM57. It and the SM57 rock with the DMP3. All this gear is versatile as the dickens. I've never used a VTB-1, but I'd like to hear one. Good idea about downsizing the mixer, too. You don't need the extra channels yet (but someday you will... ) At this price point, there's just no way to lose with your plan.

 

[BJW]

Hey thanks for the helpful reply, Treeline.

Since you have an sm-57 and a B1 and go through a dmp3 (a combo that I expect I will probably have in the near future), what applications do you use each mic for? I would guess B1 for vocals and instruments and the 57 for instruments as well, but do you use the 57 for vocs? Just curious. I've tried the 57 for vocals, and it did ok, but not as good as my LD condensor.

I'm guessing there are a lot of people just like me who start out on an m-audio sound card and behringer pre's, mostly because of the price. I also imagine lots of people out there consider the dmp3 and B1 to be an inexpensive upgrade to that set-up, so once I get the dmp3, I'll sure put up a post about how I think they compare. (I've seen tons of posts about the dmp3 being a good quality pre at the price, but not much that says if it's worth upgrading from a berry mixer)

Thanks again for the reply.

Any more thoughts???

-Brian

 

[BJW]

Good idea about downsizing the mixer, too. You don't need the extra channels yet (but someday you will... )

Sounds better and better to me all the time. Don't be suprised to see me post in the gear for sale section soon!

-Brian

 

[Treeline]

Long answer to short question

Those are two mics I use for about everything. For instance, I do live sound for a country / western swing band, with four vocalists. One also plays mandolin, acoustic or electric guitar as needed. One plays an acoustic or his red tele. One also has a cool guitar rig; he has his gear set up to do a tele or a pedal steel; sometimes he plays both in the same tune. He also plays an acoustic, does a mean harmonica and his vocals. Busy guy. There is also a drum kit and an electric bass player who doubles on vocals. Depending on the tune, any one of these guys, as well as a lady with a killer voice, could lead. They trade back and forth, so the mics and so forth have to be flexible.

Each instrument is played though its own amp, which I then either mic or run direct to the board. So far, I've found the best results with micing the amps. The pedal steel guy has his whole rig running through a little 15 watt tube amp that gives him pretty nice tone but not much gain. So it's sitting on a chair two feet away from him. I always have an SM57 on that amp, positioned one inch in from the edge of the speaker and nearly touching the speaker grille. He gets his own channel on the board and the punch comes from the PA. He and the others each have a separate vocal mic, which is either a Shure or an AKG depending on the voice.

Because I have a small mixer, I had to get clever with signal routing as I used everything up. (Sometimes I rent a second small board to do a submix of the vocals, as there are few songs with more than one lead vocal and I can get away with it). There are three other guitar amps. Two are electrics (ready for one of the red teles and one ready for the strat) and the other is an acoustic amp running a channel with an acoustic guitar and a separate channel for the mandolin. I arrange the amps in a U-shape to one side, with the acoustic in the center facing the center of the grouping. Everyone can hear their signal. I suspend one SP B1 in a shockmount upside down from overhead right in the center of the amps, a foot off the ground. The balance has to be tweaked by trial and error, but after three or four gigs they have it right down. Because the electric amps are rarely going at once, I get a good useable blended signal that covers the FOH needs for four instuments, while using only one channel. That's how you can do a full band with a 12 channel board.

I also record with the B1; I've used it for single and choral voices, recently used it for ambient micing of a chamber ensemble together with a pair of Neumann KM185s and a SP C3; and use it for my primary vocal mic in my own solo guitar / vocal gigs. I use a MXL 603s on the guitar as well, and patch in a direct signal from the guitar, so I use three channels in a solo gig.

The B1 is a real workhorse; you always can find a "better" match, but I challenge anyone to find one mic that can do yeoman duty like this one, at this price point. The SM57 is legendary for this same reason, and because you could probably use it as a hammer and it would still work. That's the one mic to have on a desert island.

Other uses for the B1 - together with an MXL 603 to record a live classical solo performance for violin and for viola; set up as a pair to track operetta vocal duets, a broadway style smoothie baritone vocal solo (in French!) and a vocal / alto flute duet. Other than the violin and viola solos, each were accompanied by a pianist on a 7' Steinway grand. I had a pair of small Crowns on that beauty. I also used a pair to record the vocal performances during a wedding, had a stealth overhead C3 to capture the ceremony, and gave the couple a CD as a wedding present. So what if you can hear the kid crying in the fourth row.

 

[BJW]

Thanks for another good reply, Treeline.

You've about got me sold on that B1. I just wish I could find a store that carried it so I could try it out and see if it's a worthy upgrade from what I've got now. I suppose if I have the B1 and my Superlux, I'll fink uses for both of them. Never hurts to have one more, right? Maybe I can sell my mixer and buy a smaller one and have enough left over to get a sp B1.

Well, no word yet from guitar center about the dmp3. I've been pretty busy lately but I'd have time to do some A/B tests on the dmp3 and my behringer. I had them order it a week ago, you'd think they'd have it in by now. . . . .

-Brian

 

[cominginsecond]

I think my DMP3 was an excellent deal for the money. Tons of clean gain. Very quiet. A little thin compared to my Summit Audio 2BA-221, but that makes sense, since my Summit was 600 per channel and my DMP3 was $100.

Anyway, great pre for the money. Absolutely blows away the toob stuff by Presonus and Behringer.

 

[Treeline]

It's a good idea to try any mic you encounter in the price range. I don't think there's anything really magic about the B1, except for one thing - it has a good practical balance of performance, utility and price. Any mic in this price category is going to show a boatload of compromises. In this case, I think the compromises were pretty good ones. It's useable, neutral and predictable. But try what is locally available to get a flavor of how these things seem to behave.

 

[cellardweller]

I use my DMP for just about everything. It's better than my Mackie preamps, and I expect it'll smoke the Behringer.

The DMP3 seems to be quite a value.
What kind of Mackie do you have?
I have an SM57, SPB1 (though I haven't used it yet!), and a Mackie 808M, so it sounds like this would be complimentary to my humble setup as well...

 

[BJW]

The DMP3 seems to be quite a value.
What kind of Mackie do you have?
I have an SM57, SPB1 (though I haven't used it yet!), and a Mackie 808M, so it sounds like this would be complimentary to my humble setup as well...

Cellardweller, let us know when you try out that B1. Right now I'm trying to decide if I should go with a B1 or a C1. Vocals are what I want to improve the most, but a good all-around mic would be a great asset, too. Maybe I'll spring for both, we'll see.

-Brian

 

[Treeline]

I have a humble Mackie CFX mixer. The preamps are not as good as in the VLZ mixers, but as a live mixer the thing does just fine. Plus, it's built like a tank. I'm interested in hearing about the Onyx preamps when they become better known.

 

[cellardweller]

I tried it last night, and it is certainly a world of difference from the SM57 which I've used on everything until now. I can't really give much objective advice as I have a very limited reference for comparison, but I certainly don't regret my purchase.

Look around here, there are a couple of threads that have good info on both including-

ozrave says this about the C1

My experience was that the B3 could be a decent vocal mic with unusual voices that didn't tend to come across well on the usual suspect mics. I think the C1 can be a solid vocal mic for the price on many male vocals.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

 

[BJW]

Hey all,

My DMP3 came in today. When I have time I'll do a comparison between the dmp3 and the berry mx-series mixer pre's I've got. I'm thinking about just buying that small ub802 board tonight when I go to pick up my dmp3, so I'd have the berry mx pre's, the berry ub pre's, and the dmp3 pre's.

Let me know if you guys want a comparison. Too bad I don't have a decent mike (but mine is definately work-able).

-Brian