C
chessrock
Banned
Elmo89m said:
Sytek and two channels of whatever else I could afford (2 X Rane MS-1B, dmp3, symetrix 201, etc.).
Sytek and two channels of whatever else I could afford (2 X Rane MS-1B, dmp3, symetrix 201, etc.).
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
If I were in your situation and needed 8 channels for $1,000, I personally would go for the Mackie. The fact that it has converters built in is an important factor, as well.
If you think 6 channels is fine, as much as you'll ever need, then again you could get the 800r. Or, the Sytek along with some other two channel preamp. The nice thing about that is that you then have a couple different colors to work with. But the second preamp shouldn't be a DMP3, it should be something else like an Aphex 207, something that will have a different color.
If you think 6 channels is fine, as much as you'll ever need, then again you could get the 800r. Or, the Sytek along with some other two channel preamp. The nice thing about that is that you then have a couple different colors to work with. But the second preamp shouldn't be a DMP3, it should be something else like an Aphex 207, something that will have a different color.
Elmo89m
New member
erghh....i think sytek aphex route then...i think..bah...
X
XLR
______
Sounds smart to me.
Tim
Elmo89m
New member
haha....twenty minutes later........but then again the mackie onyx is good and it would give me two more channels than the sytek ahpex route...i think i just will have to look into how big of a difference there is between a channel of the sytek and a channel of the mackie...qualtiy wise
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Do you have a store you can go to, and check these preamps out? Most major stores will have the Onyx 800r and the Aphex 207. The best way to get a feel for gear is to try it hands on. Even if it means driving a distance, it's worth it to try them out in person, as that will answer a lot of questions.
Personally, I would expect the Sytek and Mackie preamps to be of approximately the same quality. And if it was me I'd probably go for the Mackie, partly due to the converters it has built in. Those will come in handy down the road.
But again, if you can try these things out in person you'll be a step ahead.
Personally, I would expect the Sytek and Mackie preamps to be of approximately the same quality. And if it was me I'd probably go for the Mackie, partly due to the converters it has built in. Those will come in handy down the road.
But again, if you can try these things out in person you'll be a step ahead.
C
chessrock
Banned
SonicAlbert said:
Uh ... No.
X
XLR
______
Elmo89m, that's absolutely the best thing anyone can do when buying gear. You're getting excellent advice from both Sonic Albert and Chessrock, but I suspect they've got a bet on the side about when exactly your head will explode from the back-and-forth stress of the decision.
Tim
C
chessrock
Banned
Timothy Lawler said:
I dunno. I'm beginning to have my doubts about Sonic these days.
I mean, first off ... the very fact that he once owned a Presonus Blue Tube just kinda' makes me cringe. Think about it. At one time, this seemingly reasonable person felt that a Presonus Toob gizmo was like the holy grail and he had to own one.
I'm just givin' ya shit about that one, Sonic. But that whole Mackie and Sytek being comparable thing really does concern me. You realize you're basically saying : "Mackie board? Neotek console? Same difference. Heck, let's just track with the Mackie. It's got converters."
Seriously, Sonic. You feelin' alright?Of course this is comin' from the guy who said there wasn't a lot of difference between prosumer and higher-end pres (Me) ... so what the hell do I even know? I say don't listen to either of us.
X
XLR
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Anybody heard the new Onyx pre's? I've been told they're a noticeable improvement over the old VLZ Pro, which is the only Mackie pre I've heard myself. And the EQ is bypassable now.
Tim
Tim
Elmo89m
New member
chess i defintly respect you but what sonic is saying makes more sense for me. Its cheaper and that is important plus converters is a plus as my set up is all computer based and my preamp will be connected directly to the card(i can mix fine in sonar). So thank you...you cant attack sonic for saying the differnce is negligible. Its an ear thing...and for my circumstances i dont think it will make a huge difference. thank you for the help....My brain no longer feels split between sytek and mackie.....i wish i could add to both your rep's but it wont let me anymore.....Now i think ill look into converters as i dont know as much as i should.
C
chessrock
Banned
Elmo89m said:
And I like ears. Ears are good. I'm pretty confident that anyone who has a decent pair of them will tell you that a Sytek is in a different league altogether than something like a Mackie. I am very confident that a large enough body of the audio community would concur. If there is such a thing as a "hierachy," then a Mackie would certainly fall well below something like a Sytek ... it would be a safe enough assumption, for whatever the heck that might be worth. Whether or not that would make a meaningful difference to someone like yourself in your situation ... that would be more a matter of opinion.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
chessrock said:
I've had doubts about me for a long time!
The reason I had a couple Presonus TubePRE's was that I wrote a review on them and kept them for a while, since I got a good price on them. After a while I eBay'ed them and came out even on the $$$. I thought they were a good value at their price, but ultimately I didn't need the extra preamps since I don't record a lot of tracks simultaneously.
I have a philosophy regarding preamps that if you go by price and specs you'll basically know how good it is. Yes, there may be tonal variations *within* price categories, but that's a matter of taste not quality (usually). I'd love to be proven wrong on that, and I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's been my experience.
So according to the price/specs dogma, the Sytek does spec out better than the Mackie. Many specs are close, and the Mackie has a couple better specs, but overall on paper you've got to give the edge to the Sytek. It's also more expensive per channel, so I'd expect that.
However, the fact that the Onyx comes with converters built in is a huge plus in my book. This will make the unit very useful in the long term. So admittedly, that is not part of the preamp equation, but it does add value to the equipment and the choice, in my opinion. It's a balancing act, and it seems to me that for what Elmo89m needs, the Mackie is the right balance of quality and features. It will be a huge upgrade from what he is using now.
The thing is, I'm not saying pick a preamp based solely on price or specs, you obviously have to listen to them and decide whether or not their sound is right for your music. Which is why I recommended that Elmo89m do just that. And he did ask what I would do, and if it were me I would get the 800r, given the number of channels needed and the budget involved.
So chessrock, after this post I'm sure you will have even more questions about my judgement!
Tim said:
Exactly, that's why driving to a store and getting your hands on the gear is so important. I've been in your shoes many times, with my head about to explode from the choices. Without fail, once I actually got my hands on the equipment, the choice became simpler. You can tell a lot about build quality just by touching gear, pressing the buttons, twiddling the knobs, lifting it. Listening is important too! But sometimes you think you want something that looks great in the ads, and has great reviews, but when you get to the store it's like "all that fuss was over THIS?" So if at all possible, try out the gear.
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chessrock
Banned
Well, first off, I agree wholeheartedly that a Mackie board will probably be a big improvement over what he already has.
However, I can't agree on the idea of auditioning things at a store. It just isn't a very good environment for evaluating things. Especially when you're talking about mic pres, where differences will be very subtle and mostly cumulative. I wouldn't trust a Guitar Center guy to be able to tie his shoe ... let alone be able to set up a highly-controled environment and setup necessary for the critical comparison and evaluation of mic pres.
However, I can't agree on the idea of auditioning things at a store. It just isn't a very good environment for evaluating things. Especially when you're talking about mic pres, where differences will be very subtle and mostly cumulative. I wouldn't trust a Guitar Center guy to be able to tie his shoe ... let alone be able to set up a highly-controled environment and setup necessary for the critical comparison and evaluation of mic pres.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
I agree that stores aren't the best place to do it, but where else? If I know someone has a piece of gear I'm interested in, I'll ask them about it or even try to set up a time to go check it out. The business of having gear sent from the dealer and then sending it back is good if they are okay with it, but that's often not the case. And if you really want to get into serious comparisons, you'll be shipping gear all ove the place, or making a lot of trips to your local store at the very least.
I've found stores to be very helpful in checking gear out, even if the listening environment is less than ideal, which they almost always are. The harder thing is to avoid the high pressure sales tactics that are sometimes used. Once the salesman gets the idea you aren't going to be bluffed and or bullied into buying something, they usually leave you alone. At least they do me.
I've found stores to be very helpful in checking gear out, even if the listening environment is less than ideal, which they almost always are. The harder thing is to avoid the high pressure sales tactics that are sometimes used. Once the salesman gets the idea you aren't going to be bluffed and or bullied into buying something, they usually leave you alone. At least they do me.
Warhead
Jai guru deva om
Timothy Lawler said:
Tim, the Onyx preamps are tight and focused. I've used them with my AEA ribbon, condensors and dynamic mics and they sound good with all of them.
I always found the VLZ to be a bit thin and the gain pot wasn't very linear. The high end on the VLZ preamps (my buddy's 1604VLZ) was always kind of nasty to my ears.
Not so with the Onyx. I would go so far as to say the Onyx doesn't have that "Mackie sound".
The EQ is pretty damn nice as well on the Onyx boards, the Q is wide which can have its advantages and disadvantages. It's a quiet board with a solid feel as well, and good monitoring capability. No reason you can't make a record on one.
War
T
tapestry
New member
In regards to Syteks pre, has anyone tried the Burr-Brown option on Syteks? Is it a good idea to put them on atleast 2 of the 4 channels for variation?
T
tdukex
Man of the Muse
Elmo89m said:
Some thoughts:
1) You already have eight excellent AD converters. Why would you want to pay for eight more (Onyx) that probably are not even as good.
2) I would never shop by specs (especially those published by a manufacturer) or consider specs to be the determining factor in regards to quality. They are a factor, but not the determining factor.
3) I do believe you generally get what you pay for. And when you price out the cost per channel between the Onyx (subtracting the cost for the other "features") and the Sytek, they are not in the same league, and I doubt they are in the same league sonically either. Note: I have heard neither, but if the Onyx pres are in the same league as the Sytek, I guess Sytek should just close up shop because it won't be long before Mackie (and its additional features) puts them out of business.
If you did not already have excellent converters, the Onyx would probably be a very wise choice. But since you do already have excellent converters, spend your money on preamps. I don't see the wisdom in paying for eight additional converters or for preamps that are largely untested in the real world.
Syteks are tested and proven to sound great and be a great value. I would definitely go with the Sytek + whatever 2-channel you can afford. Later, you can upgrade your additional two channels.