Practical Help For Dissertation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter thethirdman111
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Your dissertation is going down a rathole.

Despite your original intentions, the more down-the-line you get on this idea, you may just be proving to your audience that analog is:
-too much hassle
-too expensive
-too much maintenance
-not practical
-marginal sound quality,... depending on the mix you ultimately end up with.

And, exactly what is your audience going to do with a vinyl LP? How many people these days even have turntables?

It takes a lot of practical experience to make a really stellar recording on any medium. Even I lost the main point of this dissertation. That you don't "need" digital? That digital isn't "best"? Well, for many people,... they do,... and it is!

I think people record on analog for two reasons:
a) they are old school, having learned or done the bulk of their recording on analog, and they're attached to it by nostalgia, or...
b) for the love of the "art" of recording,... vs. the prefab point/click simulated recording world in-the-box of the 'puter.

Most people these days are infatuated with their 'puters. They take it for granted as a standard household appliance. It turns every desktop into a "studio" and every key operator into a "producer". That's just the post-2K world we live in.

I don't wanna sound harsh. You're heading down an expensive road for limited gains, but I appreciate your original idea. More power to you, dude.:eek:;)

I mean,... it was "cool" when you concieved of this idea all on "borrowed" equipment, but I'd not advise you to hop out on eBay and buy just any machine, for hundreds of dollars and in return getting somewhat unknown maintenance issues set in your lap,... to me it's just not worth it. Now, if you really wanted to set up a cool analog studio, then go for it, but not for a college dissertation to "make a point". Hey, I'm all for analog recording if that's what you really want to do. There's certainly nothing wrong with it, albiet being outdated and out of fashion, but many real people still love analog recording for what it is,... a committment!

Peace out.
 
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I think you have missed the point.

Im not saying digital isn't good. I know many studios still have at least one tape machine in them for tracking drums for example. Im just investigating the practicality of analogue recording and whether there is a future for it. Im aiming to be as neutral as possible in the argument.

My dissertation supervisor is extremely interested in my dissertation and is giving me plenty of encouragement. He is also completely down with the idea of me handed the finished tracks in on vinyl. I posted a thread in hope of getting some help and advise, not to be put down.

Your comment about turntables makes me laugh with disbelief.

Analogue recording has been a passion of mine for a long time and as you can see i have still a great deal to learn. Digital recording just doesn't interest me like analogue does.

In comparison to all the digital recording i have done, the two analogue tracks that have been recorded (that haven't been mixed yet) sound far better already. (Although that might be down to running the tracks through TL Audio Valve Pre amps).

Anyway, thanks for the help...
 
thirdman

Just don't want to see this go sideways.

A Reel Person makes the best sounding recordings on multitrack analog cassette I have ever heard, or even thought possible, and he has definitely been doing it for a long time, among other things. You'd never know they are cassette 4-track.

His emphatic commentary is to rattle thoughts and to play the antagonist's advocate if you will, not to put you down. Trust me on that. Its sort of a directed out-loud thinking. Made me think...:D

He fits into both categories A and B (as well as being proficient in digital production) BTW.

Dave, tell me if I'm off-base.

His comments echo likely the thoughts of many here, and I can say for certain mine, and those thoughts come from a standpoint of not knowing your history and experience which you've shared a bit more about in your last post.

Okay...so what's my point...not sure...just don't want to see anybody's feathers getting ruffled, and we don't want to see you or anybody running out and dropping dosh on analog gear because its "the answer" even if for a well-intended dissertation project. y'know? I'm 2 years into my "return to analog apprenticeship" of sorts and I can tell you the rathole goes deep, but its pretty nice down here too.

I think I got thrown when you were talking about using a multi-track deck to mixdown your multitrack project which is akin to mixing down a digital project onto 3.5" floppy in a multi-part .zip file. Did you feel words above were condescending? Than shame on me or anybody if I/we did. Its not at all with this forum community is about, but I for one got thrown.

So look, try again?

Where are you at with the project? What do you need to do next/what's the hurdle and how can we help?
 
You're right. I missed the point. I'm an @ss.

I didn't mean to be a buzkill, and I'm only here to help.

I just wouldn't want to send anyone on a wild goose chase for spending hundreds of dollars, sight unseen. The idea seemed fabulous when it was all borrowed equipment. If you're into analog as much as it seems, more power to you. I'll not argue that in many cases it sounds better, but at what cost?

Simple. Go buy a Tascam 22-2 and master to 1/4" tape. That seems like a slam dunk to me. Good luck.:eek:;)
 
thethirdman111 said:
Can anyone recommend a decent 1/2" 2 track machine?
Click to expand...

While, indeed, some mastering houses can take 1/2", it's actually more common to see 1/4", so first ask if they have that capability too.

I personally would set aside any house which doesn't take 1/4" and look for one which handles that format simply as a result of much easier access of the said deck and it being considerably less costly to run. Most records have been mastered to / from 1/4" half track tape.

However you seek it out, whether borrowing one or buying, always heed the advice of buying local, where you can check it out carefully [head-ware, test-tones etc...] and avoid shipping like the plaque.

craigslist.com is a cool place to search out gear and some recorders to keep an eye out for are the Tascam 22-2, 32, 42, 52, some Otari models and, of course, the Fostex.

--
 
1/2" 2 track machines tend to be very expensive.

I have a Tascam 22-2. I thought it was the best sounding machine until I got an Otari MX-50 NII. Even tapes recorded on the 22-2 sound better played back on the MX-50.

I'm really intrigued by this company. If I ever get everything together on my end, I'd really think about pressing a one off (with maybe a backup copy or two) record for my own purposes. The way I would do it is record on my Tascam MS-16 (1" 16 track), mix-down to the Otari, and then if needed to sweeten the sound further (additional compression, mastering reverb, etc.) I'd make a copy on the Tascam 22-2. It is this copy that I would send to the record presser, but I'm not certain that they accept reels. Of course, if I planned everything better and didn't mind doing some tape splicing, I could probably pull it off all on the Otari. I would just have to watch the levels so closely to make sure each song was dynamically consistent.

I could upload 24-bit 96k mixes of my music... and technically they'd sound better than CD's, but there is something about "going digital" that would sour it for me too, so I understand what you mean. But, I don't have any reservations about using digital reverbs or delays.

-MD
 
apologies for my previous post. I really appreciate your feedback and am aware of your experience in this field.

i guess i should have explained my intentions more clearly.

I do not intend to keep the tape machine after the dissertation is complete although it would be nice. so i guess you could say it will be borrowed.I already owned the fostex E16 way before the project idea was conceived.

I just like the fact that albums such as 'dark side of the moon' would not have existed if it weren't for the limitations of analogue recording in regards to working with a limited number tracks. Also the mix down process in terms of manual automation was really a performance and something that has been lost in music production today. Back then engineers really were engineers.

Anyway its too late to turn back now.

Im currently looking at a Revox B77
 
thethirdman111 said:
Im currently looking at a Revox B77
Click to expand...

Yup, that's another oft-left out recorder, worth a look. Make sure it's the half [2 track], high speed version, with good heads. If it's the 4 track model, make sure to ask the mastering house if they can accommodate that format. Maybe you'll be lucky. ;)

Actually, I don't know why this was never brought up but you should specifically ask the mastering house which exact formats they can take and not just 1/4" or 1/2" but also track count, speed etc..... That will narrow down which machines to look for.

--
 
Before the tape is ready is to be sent off for duplication, is it necessary to record a 1khz tone at 0dB followed by a 10khz tone at 0dB at the beginning of the tape?

Any other things to bare in mind before sending it off?
 
sweetbeats said:
I second that...1/4" half-track 2-track format has been used on countless hit recordings. 1/2" half-track 2-track is going to be harder to find and exponentially more expensive when you do.
Click to expand...

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon was mastered to 1/4" 2-track :cool:
 
thethirdman111 said:
Vinyl carvers have a Revox B77 MK2 in their studio and charge an additional £40 if they master from it.
Click to expand...

That they have a B77 doesn't mean you have to get one too nor does it mean that it'll work. That model came in several versions, you see, including a half [2] track and a 4 track, 3.75 / 7.5ips and 7.5 / 15ips.

That's why I suggested you ask about the specific track format, speed etc....... which are more important than the brand of recorder.

This basically means that if you buy a B77 in the wrong format than what the mastering house offers, then you're out of luck.

Again, the name of a recorder or model is meaningless.
 
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