Portable vs. Computer based DAW?

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Bert0529

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I can only imagine there have been barroom brawls over this topic already, but let me resurrect it once again.

I have been out of the recording loop for about 6 or 7 years and am looking to get back in as a serious hobbyist. The biggest decision I face is whether to go with a portable DAW or a computer based version. Specifically, I'm wavering between the Tascam 2488 and Sonar 3 Producer.

The hinge factor is this. All of my tracking and mixing can be done in my office with the exception of recording drum tracks. For the drums I intend to use a 7 mic setup and would like to be able to record each mic on a separate track for later fine tuning. So.....

Should I stick with the 2488 and do all my work on that unit or should I consider purchasing a recorder that can record 8 tracks simultaneously and then transfer those tracks over to the computer do the rest of the tracking and mixing in Sonar? I haven't used either so I'm counting on your experience....

Please let me know the drawbacks and advantages of each.

Thank you.
 
One advantage with the 2488 is that you know you have an entire work station that was designed for recording music.
[ Though it will have limitations]

Don't get me wrong computer based recording can be great and sometimes offers more flexability depending on what software,
plugins and how much processing power you have. There is alot more to great computer recording than most people think.

I've recorded in top notch studios with full pro tools set ups
and they are amazing. [ They also have about 65,000.00
invested.] At home I record with the Tascam 788 and am going to upgrade to the 2488.

I know others will disagree with me and that's great. Digital work stations or / Studios in a box are not for eveyone. Neither are computer based systems. It all comes down to personal preferance. Good luck.
 
I'm not normally on this forum, but I'll jump in... Editing is far easier using a mouse and PC than the procedures on a portable DAW. Plus, you can add plug-ins to a PC setup, adding features and capability.

However, I use a 16-track portable DAW and really love it. It's VERY stable, quiet, portable, and fun. Editing is a breeze compared to the old tape days, punch-ins are seamless, the on-board effects are fine, and the onboard burner is excellent.

Still, the click/drag aspect on a PC would make editing that much quicker.

I would say if you're headed in the direction of a PC, have it ONLY for music recording.
 
I would agree that a PC dedicated to audio recording only is a good idea. Put your money into a big hard drive, a ton of ram,
and the best sound card you can buy. I really miss the editing
capabilities of Pro Tools [ When I'm in a big studio ]. If i'm off a
little on a snare beat or something, the engineer just moves it ahead or back to fix it. With my 788 I gotta play it right. I haven't
used the auto punch yet however I'm going to give it a shot
sometime this week. I'm probably going to go with the 2488
if I can live with the auto punch verses Pro Tools editing.
I just have a feeling that 24 tracks of great computer recording
would cost me alot more than 1200.00. Good Luck.
 
Bert0529 said:
Should I stick with the 2488 and do all my work on that unit or should I consider purchasing a recorder that can record 8 tracks simultaneously and then transfer those tracks over to the computer do the rest of the tracking and mixing in Sonar? I haven't used either so I'm counting on your experience....

Please let me know the drawbacks and advantages of each.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Contrary to what you may hear, computer recording can be troublesome. The suggestion to dedicate your computer to audio is a symptom of the relative 'fragility' of PC recording (and I'm not talking about a ProTools rig, but rather the Windows/Sonar system you mentioned.)

I've seen some posts on the 2488 and there are already signs of limitations. For your application it sounds like a hardware recorder that can give you 8 tracks of simultaneous recording, used in conjunction with a PC for mixing is your best bet. Look for a recorder that gives you flexible IO* (inputs, preamps, etc. that you need for tracking, and USB and/or Firewire for transfer to a PC), as opposed to some flashy (yet ultimately cheesy) built in effects and tone generators, and pair that with nice audio application for mixing (I work with a guy who has used everything and is still in awe of Sonar 3, whereas I find n-Track is an amazing value for 49 bucks.)

* make sure any recorder you buy has something like USB for sharing files with a PC. Using a CD or S/PDIF is a relative nightmare.
 
I appreciate everybody's input. I'm inching closer and closer to puling out the credit card. With the amount of research one is able to do before purchasing it's funny to think that once a new machine or piece of software is pulled from the box a whole new forest of information awaits.

Is the 2488 able to share data with a PC on a track by track basis? i.e. Can I record a bunch of tracks on the 2488 and then transfer all of the raw tracks to a PC and mix from there? It seems that the PC is a great place to work with material, but not such a great place to record it for my situation. This is considering that portability is an issue for me. My drums, piano and office (home to all the other instruments) are all on different floors of my house, plus I intend to do some recording off site.

The plan I'm leaning toward now is to purchase the 2488 and work on that alone for a while and eventually pick up Sonar 3 Producer and upgrade the PC to acceptable specs (my machine needs an overhaul anyway). I figure I would've used the Aardvark Q10 as an I/O solution to record to PC. The difference between that and the 2488 is only about $400. For that money and a little patience it seems like I can avoid a lot of aggravation.

NOW DOES IT WORK?!?!?!?!?! (pulling my hair out)

HA HA HA HA!!!!

Thank you.
 
Really..... will that work? Can I send 24 tracks of audio from my 2488 to 24 corresponding tracks in Sonar? Is there a method of syncing so that I could send them 8 at a time?

In general, how are a Tascam 2488 and the Sonar software able to communicate and share data/audio?

Thank you.....
 
In a perfect world you should be able to transfer the 24 tracks from the 2488 to Sonar 3.x. as .wav files via the USB port on the 2488 or via .wav files on CD. However users are experiancing some problems with wav file tranfers of tracks that have retakes
edits etc done to them. They are coming up with no audio on the computer. Several users are trying some work arounds right now
to solve the problem. One being bouncing the edited track to a new track to create a clean track. If your in no hurry more should be known about this issue within a week or so as many of us bought our 2488's with the idea that wav file export would be a breeze. If it's an OS bug I would think Tascam would fix it with a
software or firmare update. I'm not slamming Tascam here but
many of us expect this machine to import and export wav files
with ease as described in their product brochures. My 2488 just arrived today and is still in the box so all of the information I'm giving here is 2nd hand but I believe it's reliable.

The final set up your talking about sounds like a great set up
[ provided everthing is working correctly ] More and more people are tracking on SIAB's and mixing / mastering on computer.
 
Thanks for the info.

I wouldn't be purchasing anything for at least a month anyway so I can afford to wait out some of the bugs. I've read a few posts from people waiting out the first issue of the 2488 to allow Tascam to debug some of those issues that only arise with real world use. Maybe this is a good idea.

Forgive my ignorance of the technology but is it supposed to be possible to move 8 tracks (or any number) at a time to the PC? or is it a one move deal?

i.e. Can I record 8 tracks of drums and copy them over to the PC and work on them a bit then later copy over another group of tracks to layer on the drums. If so, how is this accomplished? Is it a sync operation (i.e. MIDI, SMPTE) or a computer data controlled event?

I'm not looking for actual button pushing advice just the theory behind how it works. This is the kind of education I need before jumping in head first. I appreciate it.
 
If you are serious about the 2488, I would wait. The 788 went through 12 firmware upgrades and many of the early ones were debugging type upgrades. Some see this as a problem but I was just glad that the problems could be dealt with instead of stuck with.

Peace,
vaporpark
 
Thanks for the input. How long does it usually take for a second or even third generation to hit the market? What is Tascam's policy on updating its products? Are there problems that can be fixed via software updates? Are there ever cases where physical updates to machines can be performed or is it always a buy as is situation?

I know that's a lot of questions, but it's "business" end of home recording that is completely foreign to me at this point. I know enough about knobs and buttons to get by and I'll figure out the digitization of the controls but the business is greek to me.

Thanks.
 
Sorry for the long delay.

Many of the initial firmware upgrades for the 788 were solved by downloading from the net and burning to a CD for upgrading. You could alos get upgrades from Tascam. Then there was an upgrade that required a eprom chip replacement. Depending when you bought your machine it was free or $29.95.

I am sure the 2488 will go through frimware upgrades and that is good thing. It will only make the machine better.

Peace,
vp
 
Thank you.

It's nice to hear that there is some flexibility there. What I feared was purchasing a 2488 for $1,200 and then not having access to product updates that drastically affect the performance of the machine. As long as they're willing to offer solutions, a few downloads and a $30 upgrade or two won't bum me out too much.

Any word on if they ever plan a video output and/or mouse control? Seems like these would be huge improvements on an already quality product.

Thanks!
 
I think you should look at some other options beside just these two. I somehow suspect that you'll find the 2488 pretty limiting fairly quickly. How about the new Korg 32XD? Lot more money but.... Even the 16XD's I'll bet are some very nice machines. The Akai 24 tracker is probably a far better machine than the Tascam and the price is coming way down on those. I just ordered the Tascam FW-1884 with Sonar 3 PE. I'm hoping it isn't too buggy. Just sum thoughts. Good luck with your shopping.
 
Mine's backordered but from what I've read from users, most 2488 problems are with the user. I'd expect fewer firmware upgrades on the 2488 as they cut their teeth on 788 and made their mistakes there and the 2488 is a very similar platform.

I tried for a few years to multitrack on a computer but could never really get comfortable with it. When I got my 788 my productivity went way up. I'd say if you're guitar based, a stand alone daw might be the best way to go, and you more into keyboards then a computer based system could serve you better.
 
Phil, as I spend time thinking about it, portability has definitely become more and more of a factor to me so the SIAB is definitely the way to go for me. I've decided against recording to the PC. I still want to do everything else on PC, just not the actual recording.

Steve, I looked at the Korg 32 and YA! I want that!! I'm not going to get it though. Based solely on economics it makes more sense for me to get the SIAB for tracking purposes and then edit/mix/master on PC. After all, spending $1,000 upgrading the computer I already own will bring me up to some very spicy specs and it's money more easily parted with due to the general utility of the PC. (In other words, my wife likes the computer too!)

Ultimately, if I am able to simultaneously record 8 direct tracks of 24 bit/96 kHz audio and then dump it on to the PC that should be all I need to do. Of course there's one catch (isn't there always?) I'll need anywhere from 8 to 32 total tracks so I need to be able to move tracks from the SIAB to the PC in groups. Is that possible? i.e. can record 6 tracks and then move them to the PC. Then record 3 more tracs and move them to the PC. Then 2 more etc... I don't understand the data transfer process so I can't figure it out. Is there a sync? I'm baffled.

Songsj touches on the information in an earlier post in this thread, but is still a little over my head. I understand that all 24 tracks are supposed to be able to be transferred at once, but could you transfer them one at a time (or 5 at a time, any number really) if you wanted to and have them sync up properly?

I hate to keep beating this horse. Thanks for your patience and insight!
 
Bert0529 said:
Ultimately, if I am able to simultaneously record 8 direct tracks of 24 bit/96 kHz audio and then dump it on to the PC that should be all I need to do.
Click to expand...



...uhhh...... I mean 24bit/44.1 kHz........

Thanks!
 
Bert0529 said:
Phil, as I spend time thinking about it, portability has definitely become more and more of a factor to me so the SIAB is definitely the way to go for me. I've decided against recording to the PC. I still want to do everything else on PC, just not the actual recording.

Steve, I looked at the Korg 32 and YA! I want that!! I'm not going to get it though. Based solely on economics it makes more sense for me to get the SIAB for tracking purposes and then edit/mix/master on PC. After all, spending $1,000 upgrading the computer I already own will bring me up to some very spicy specs and it's money more easily parted with due to the general utility of the PC. (In other words, my wife likes the computer too!)

Ultimately, if I am able to simultaneously record 8 direct tracks of 24 bit/96 kHz audio and then dump it on to the PC that should be all I need to do. Of course there's one catch (isn't there always?) I'll need anywhere from 8 to 32 total tracks so I need to be able to move tracks from the SIAB to the PC in groups. Is that possible? i.e. can record 6 tracks and then move them to the PC. Then record 3 more tracs and move them to the PC. Then 2 more etc... I don't understand the data transfer process so I can't figure it out. Is there a sync? I'm baffled.

Songsj touches on the information in an earlier post in this thread, but is still a little over my head. I understand that all 24 tracks are supposed to be able to be transferred at once, but could you transfer them one at a time (or 5 at a time, any number really) if you wanted to and have them sync up properly?

I hate to keep beating this horse. Thanks for your patience and insight!
Click to expand...

I've only done maybe 12 remote recording situations in three years but it sure is handy when it comes up. And when you add the 2488's ability to plug in condensers direct with phantom power, the simplicity can make for fewer errors in live recording. With a gaggle of pres and compression and wires it seems some button or knob is always wrong when I'm remote recording, and I don't notice till after the fact.

I've been pretty happy with the mixes on the 788 and have always used the s/pdif out for the stereo mixes for final work at 24 bit on the computer. I just can't imagine trying to work in that kind detail on the 788, or 2488 for that matter.
 
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