Hello. I am planning to record classical guitar concerts in a few churches and am looking for some advice on options for the recording equipment. I have a MacBook Pro, a smallish half rack width 2-channel Grace mic pre and a stereo pair of Gefell mics. What I don’t have is a portable converter, so I’m wondering whether it is best to get a USB A to D interface (eg the Focusrite, or Audient interface)that I can feed from the Grace mic pre and use with my MacBook , or just get something like a Zoom F3 and forget about the mic pres and the Mac? Or even use the Grace with the F3? I don’t want to spend too much on this rig, but I would like to do the artist justice. Any advice gratefully appreciated
Portable recording rig
- Thread starter kayote
- Start date
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
I'd go for a stand-alone device, with integral stereo mics. It is too much fuss messing around with computers.
You often capture the reverberating space more than the guitars.
You can't guarantee a good recording, but with experience you could learn where to place the device for a likely good recording.
Maybe use more than one device simultaneously.
You often capture the reverberating space more than the guitars.
You can't guarantee a good recording, but with experience you could learn where to place the device for a likely good recording.
Maybe use more than one device simultaneously.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I do this kind of recording a lot, and yesterday another rolled in. The killer decision every single time is which mics and where. I’m one who bangs on about mics and not preamps, finding mic choice critical and listening back to old stuff, I don’t even remember which is which. I’ll happily use any of my usual interfaces, or an H6 zoom, they all do a great job well above any worry level. Mics wise, it’s a nightmare. U.K. churches range from wonderful to terrible ones, and the new job is in one i know is not good for mics. The acoustics need help, so while in one I might use a pair of mics in X/Y, another might require A/B, or X/Y with extra mics. This troublesome venue I’ve experimented in, often by taking my Midas M32, and over miking to silly extremes. Last time there was my first time with a Decca tree and this captured a choir, the best I’ve managed there. A real faff supporting the damn thing though. Your recording sounds far more controlled so you can probably experiment with height distance and angles. My recordings often have an audience which is terrible. The Midas means I can connect as many mics as possible. Spaced pairs, coincident, spot mics, far mics, extra width mics then sort it back in the studio. I’ve even done recordings where totally unmentioned to me, a soloist suddenly appears and walks to a clearly preset position. Luckily right in front of one of the spaced mics! Phew!
Your mics seem a sensible choice, so my only real advice is to really listen when the player is in mid flow. Walk about and put your ears in your mic position and really listen. Then stick the mics there and put on some sealed headphones and turn the volume up. With X/Y don’t forget to solo both channels to make sure they both capture a nice sound. It’s very easy to find one channel that is a bit weak, focussing on the wrong area. Also, as in the church I’m going to, it doesn’t sound symmetrical down the centre line. Mine has hard surfaces one side, but the left has recesses and organ pipe ranks, AND carpet, so it sounds lop sided and deader than usual. It’s best for a recording, to move the singers, players away from the organ side, into the livelier side, and get off the centre line, otherwise recordings sound somewhat strange. I also cheat there being honest, getting closer and more direct and adding subtle reverb afterwards to make it sound right. Capturing the real church acoustics there sounds a little ‘wrong’.
My workflow will be MacBook m2 usb into M2.
Your mics seem a sensible choice, so my only real advice is to really listen when the player is in mid flow. Walk about and put your ears in your mic position and really listen. Then stick the mics there and put on some sealed headphones and turn the volume up. With X/Y don’t forget to solo both channels to make sure they both capture a nice sound. It’s very easy to find one channel that is a bit weak, focussing on the wrong area. Also, as in the church I’m going to, it doesn’t sound symmetrical down the centre line. Mine has hard surfaces one side, but the left has recesses and organ pipe ranks, AND carpet, so it sounds lop sided and deader than usual. It’s best for a recording, to move the singers, players away from the organ side, into the livelier side, and get off the centre line, otherwise recordings sound somewhat strange. I also cheat there being honest, getting closer and more direct and adding subtle reverb afterwards to make it sound right. Capturing the real church acoustics there sounds a little ‘wrong’.
My workflow will be MacBook m2 usb into M2.
Attachments
My son records his classical guitar in his flat. He has a MOTU M4 and a pair of Behringer C2s* but for 'location' work they can be used with his Tascam Pro40 X handheld recorder because it has two XLR inputs with phantom power.
Low noise is of course a requirement for classical guitar but the SDC mics and Tascam pre amps seem very good. Pre Covid he had access to a church where he could practice piano he intends to see if he can go back with his guitar and recording rig.
*Don't laugh! Best we could afford at the time. My dream rig for him would be a Sound Devices Pre3 or Pre6
and a pair of Gefells or DPAs. I continue to read that omni SDCs are very good? Any suggestions for SDCs of good performance but budget cost gratefully received.
BTW the Pro 40X can be powered via 5V USB and he uses those one pound 2.2ah phone backup batteries. LOT cheaper than AAs!
Dave.
Low noise is of course a requirement for classical guitar but the SDC mics and Tascam pre amps seem very good. Pre Covid he had access to a church where he could practice piano he intends to see if he can go back with his guitar and recording rig.
*Don't laugh! Best we could afford at the time. My dream rig for him would be a Sound Devices Pre3 or Pre6
and a pair of Gefells or DPAs. I continue to read that omni SDCs are very good? Any suggestions for SDCs of good performance but budget cost gratefully received.
BTW the Pro 40X can be powered via 5V USB and he uses those one pound 2.2ah phone backup batteries. LOT cheaper than AAs!
Dave.
Papanate
Well-known member
How do you know? He only said he had a pair of Gefell mics - there isn't much detail.
Papanate
Well-known member
I would drop the Grace Mic Pre and go with whatever Interface you can afford - most interfaces are well beyond the audio needs of most - BTW What Geffel Mics are you talking about?
rob aylestone
Moderator
He he - I didn't know they made any less than good ones! To be fair, I've never considered buying any because I'm very comfy with what I have!
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I'm with Dave on this one. If I was starting from scratch and was doing remote recordings like that, I would be looking at either the Zoom F6 or F8, or the Sound Devices MixPre 6 II. You would have the option of just using the internal preamps, or going with the Grace preamps, or both ways to compare. Work out the best method at home under controlled circumstances, and then use that for your location setup.
If the additional complication of bringing along the rack mount unit isn't giving an improvement, then keep things simple. Like Rob, I tend to hear vastly more differences between mics than between preamps.
If the additional complication of bringing along the rack mount unit isn't giving an improvement, then keep things simple. Like Rob, I tend to hear vastly more differences between mics than between preamps.
Papanate
Well-known member
Good ones probably - SDC? LDC? Dynamic? Gefell makes a lot of microphones - whether they fit the application is another thing.
It depends on the amount of effort you want to put into it, and the amount of quality needed, not "one or the other" as if they are equal.
If you want to track through your Graces, you have already answered your own question: you use the laptop and feed the Grace pres in.
"Portable":
High end: Sound Devices MixPres with external mics. The SDs have 'floating point' 32-bit recording, so wide dynamic range.
Lower, but still good quality: Tascam DR-70 (or higher) with external mics. I have the original DR-70; just hit the sweet spot on the pre-amps, use good mics and good positioning, and you will have a good recording. It won't match the Graces or the SDs, but it's an option without going "too low".
Don't limit your efforts by simply using built-in mics on any device. You are there to do quality work and you have Gefells, so don't "point and shoot."
C.
If you want to track through your Graces, you have already answered your own question: you use the laptop and feed the Grace pres in.
"Portable":
High end: Sound Devices MixPres with external mics. The SDs have 'floating point' 32-bit recording, so wide dynamic range.
Lower, but still good quality: Tascam DR-70 (or higher) with external mics. I have the original DR-70; just hit the sweet spot on the pre-amps, use good mics and good positioning, and you will have a good recording. It won't match the Graces or the SDs, but it's an option without going "too low".
Don't limit your efforts by simply using built-in mics on any device. You are there to do quality work and you have Gefells, so don't "point and shoot."
C.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Another vote for a "field recorder" device. I still use my Zoom F8n occasionally, even in the house if I want to record in a different room. Sound Devices is the "pro" manufacturer, but the Zoom F-series are quite capable, and with 32-bit-float in the newest ones, worth a look. And, I started with a MacBook Pro and external stuff, but it is so much more "fiddly" and the pieces between A and B, the more things that can go wrong.
That is a nice pair of mics - should be fine if you can get them in front of the player.
That is a nice pair of mics - should be fine if you can get them in front of the player.